How do Americans feel about UK spelling? - Page 18

pdurrant · 10-07-2010, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

BTW, words which sound the same, but have different spellings are called homophones. Words which are spelt the same, but have different meanings and are pronounced differently are called homographs.

(bold added)

And words which are spelt the same and pronounced the same but have different meanings are called homonyms.

e.g. (thanks wikipedia!) fluke ( a stoke of luck) and fluke (a fin on the end of a whale's tail).

Bilbo1967 · 10-07-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

(bold added)

And words which are spelt the same and pronounced the same but have different meanings are called homonyms.

e.g. (thanks wikipedia!) fluke ( a stoke of luck) and fluke (a fin on the end of a whale's tail).

My original definition was correct, as is yours. Words which are spelt the same (regardless of pronounciation) but have different meanings are called homographs.

Words which are spelt the same and pronounced the same but have different meanings are homonyms. Homonyms are a subset of homographs.

EDIT: My original post was poorly worded on re-reading. Apologies for any confusion caused.

Lady Fitzgerald · 10-07-2010, 05:43 PM

How about the English use of spelt for spelled?

GlenBarrington · 10-07-2010, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcao

I can answer that. There is almost no differences of spelling in Spanish, mostly because there is the Royal Spanish Academy (motto "[It] cleans, sets, and casts splendour") who regulates the language. That doesn't mean there are no regional slangs. Sometimes one word can have different meanings and sometimes one concept can have more than one word to name it. One source of amusement is to discover than one innocent word in one country has a gruesome meaning in another country.

But, as I stated above, written Spanish is pretty regular, and one can see that online newspapers from Mexico, Spain, and South America uses (almost) the same spelling.

Although, my it is my understanding that there is a significant difference in verbal usage. I recall reading a year or two ago, that Hispanic Television performers, world wide, have to learn to adopt a Mexican accent and speech patterns if they want to work regularly in Spanish Language Television. That it is even affecting how people speak on TV in Spain itself, not to mention Puerto Rico, South America, and South Florida.

From the Article, I gathered that the combination of Mexico being the most populous Hispanic country, being next to the USA, whose Mexican population now overwhelms the Puerto Rican and Cuban-American populations and creates a cultural power center that forces Mexican cultural and lingusitic norms on other production centers in order to sell content to the Mexican media conglomerates.

The article seemed to imply a sort of Mexican cultural imperialism, and it felt weird to this good ol' Anglo-American boy not to be pointed out as the bad guy. I had to read the New York Times just to get my bearings back!

pdurrant · 10-08-2010, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

Homonyms are a subset of homographs.

That makes sense. Thanks.

HarryT · 10-08-2010, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

How about the English use of spelt for spelled?

"-t" can be used as an alternative to "-ed" in the past tense of a huge range of different verbs; "spelt" is certainly not unique.

crich70 · 10-08-2010, 10:43 AM

It does reach back to a time when words were thought to be magic though. Even now when we encounter a word we don't know we ask, "how do you spell it?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

"-t" can be used as an alternative to "-ed" in the past tense of a huge range of different verbs; "spelt" is certainly not unique.

Lady Fitzgerald · 10-08-2010, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

"-t" can be used as an alternative to "-ed" in the past tense of a huge range of different verbs; "spelt" is certainly not unique.

True, it's not unique on your side of the pond, but on my side, it will get you funny looks. In school, it would get you bad grades. Here, it is considered improper (note I said here).

HarryT · 10-08-2010, 11:48 AM

It can throw even us Brits when used unfamiliarly. Eg, I recently came across "climbt" (ie "climbed") in a Victorian novel. Absolutely nothing wrong with that word formation grammatically, but it took me a moment to recognise what the word was.

Lady Fitzgerald · 10-08-2010, 11:57 AM

When you get down to the brass bananas, UK English and American English have evolved into two separate languages. Adding to the fun are the regional variations. Here in the US, for example, Texans speak a completely different language that uses the same words as the rest of the country but they mean different things. The four years I lived there were...ah...interesting.

GlenBarrington · 10-08-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

That's true. Many who should know better think that what British MPs call out in support of a speaker is "Here, here!" when it's really "Hear, hear!".

Americans don't think they're confused. We yell "HERE! HERE!" at the hot dog vendors at baseball games. We just assume someone got a VERY GOOD legislative catering contract and your MPs are hungry!

GlenBarrington · 10-08-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

"-t" can be used as an alternative to "-ed" in the past tense of a huge range of different verbs; "spelt" is certainly not unique.

So. . . "melt" is the same as "melted"? For example, would it be OK to say, "my ice cream has melt"?

Bilbo1967 · 10-08-2010, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

So. . . "melt" is the same as "melted"? For example, would it be OK to say, "my ice cream has melt"?

No, it wouldn't. No doubt Harry can come with more examples of a 't' ending instead of an 'ed' ending, but there really aren't that many ('smelt' is the only other one that springs to my mind as relatively common).

Harry's example above of 'climbt' may be historically grammatically correct, but I doubt one person in a thousand (if that) in the UK at the moment would recognise it as such. It would not be considered correct grammar now IMHO.

doreenjoy · 10-08-2010, 05:34 PM

Due to a most unfortunate upbringing, I speak "Pittsburgh English". I've spent many hours in accent improvement classes trying to shake its horrors. I have one big hurdle left (my inability to pronounce words like "dawn" and "talk" correctly). It's embarrassing when even non-native English speakers ask me "Where the hell are you from?"

So I sympathize. I've I've learned to adapt to Britishisms in books and they don't really bother me, unless they're used inconsistently.

One thing that drives me crazy is when British characters in books don't speak British. E.g. if they say "sidewalk" instead of "pavement." Gah.

nomesque · 10-08-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

No, it wouldn't. No doubt Harry can come with more examples of a 't' ending instead of an 'ed' ending, but there really aren't that many ('smelt' is the only other one that springs to my mind as relatively common).

'Slept' is the only one I can think of that - as far as I know - is in common usage everywhere. I don't think I've ever read, 'she sleeped and dreamed' ...

10-07-2010, 05:43 PM	#258
Lady Fitzgerald Wizard Posts: 2,013 Karma: 251649 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tempe, AZ, USA, Earth Device: JetBook Lite (away from home) + 1 spare, 32" TV (at home)	How about the English use of spelt for spelled? Last edited by Lady Fitzgerald; 10-07-2010 at 09:06 PM.

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10-08-2010, 11:48 AM	#264
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	It can throw even us Brits when used unfamiliarly. Eg, I recently came across "climbt" (ie "climbed") in a Victorian novel. Absolutely nothing wrong with that word formation grammatically, but it took me a moment to recognise what the word was.

10-08-2010, 11:57 AM	#265
Lady Fitzgerald Wizard Posts: 2,013 Karma: 251649 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tempe, AZ, USA, Earth Device: JetBook Lite (away from home) + 1 spare, 32" TV (at home)	When you get down to the brass bananas, UK English and American English have evolved into two separate languages. Adding to the fun are the regional variations. Here in the US, for example, Texans speak a completely different language that uses the same words as the rest of the country but they mean different things. The four years I lived there were...ah...interesting.

10-08-2010, 05:34 PM	#269
doreenjoy 01000100 01001010 Posts: 1,889 Karma: 2400000 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Polyamorous	Due to a most unfortunate upbringing, I speak "Pittsburgh English". I've spent many hours in accent improvement classes trying to shake its horrors. I have one big hurdle left (my inability to pronounce words like "dawn" and "talk" correctly). It's embarrassing when even non-native English speakers ask me "Where the hell are you from?" So I sympathize. I've I've learned to adapt to Britishisms in books and they don't really bother me, unless they're used inconsistently. One thing that drives me crazy is when British characters in books don't speak British. E.g. if they say "sidewalk" instead of "pavement." Gah.