Mobipocket vs ePub: Why worse is better in ebook formats - Page 6

netseeker · 07-01-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teddman

I don't like the ragged right tho.

That applies only to the Sony devices. Newer implementations of Adobes epub reader do support full justification. Hopefully Sony will publish a firmware update soon...

Teddman · 07-01-2009, 07:47 PM

Yes, but isn't it still true that text alignment isn't adjustable as a user setting? I.E. if the ePub file was not set up with full justification, you can't toggle it.

Here's a blog post on the subject:

Adobe Digital Editions does justification - but has a way to go

netseeker · 07-01-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teddman

Yes, but isn't it still true that text alignment isn't adjustable as a user setting? I.E. if the ePub file was not set up with full justification, you can't toggle it.

Here's a blog post on the subject:

Adobe Digital Editions does justification - but has a way to go

Yes, that blog post seems to be right. But from what i've heard that hasn't to be true automatically for epub readers based on the Adobe Reader Mobile SDK. Hope dies last...

Abecedary · 07-01-2009, 08:42 PM

In order to have good justification you need to have the ability to handle on-the-fly hyphenation. In order to have on-the-fly hyphenation, you need to have an internal dictionary of common words and where to appropriately break them. All this stuff starts adding up pretty fast. Especially if you intend to make your device available in markets that speak different languages. Yes, it'll get here, but when we're still dealing with issues like properly handling dropcaps and headers/footers (and not just using workarounds) it looks like it might be a short ways off.

tompe · 07-01-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abecedary

In order to have good justification you need to have the ability to handle on-the-fly hyphenation. In order to have on-the-fly hyphenation, you need to have an internal dictionary of common words and where to appropriately break them. All this stuff starts adding up pretty fast. Especially if you intend to make your device available in markets that speak different languages. Yes, it'll get here, but when we're still dealing with issues like properly handling dropcaps and headers/footers (and not just using workarounds) it looks like it might be a short ways off.

First, good hyphenation is strangely enough more important for ragged right since if you do it justified than you can fudge it more without it looking strange. Also you do not need a dictionary. Look at how TeX handles hyphenation (it still has one of the best hyphenation methods around).

jgray · 07-01-2009, 09:06 PM

Justification can be specified in the epub ebook, but the reader can override this. The current jetBook firmware ignores it and you set your choice via a menu option. Without really good hyphenation, I prefer ragged-right. Even with good hyphenation, some material just breaks funny when fully justified.

Jellby · 07-02-2009, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teddman

Yes, but isn't it still true that text alignment isn't adjustable as a user setting? I.E. if the ePub file was not set up with full justification, you can't toggle it.

No, it's not true. You can have user style sheets that "override" settings in the book.

... That is, there is software that implements that, like Calibre's viewer. Whether Adobe Digital Editions provides this feature or not is not ePUB's problem. Don't blame ePUB for ADE's faults!

Jellby · 07-02-2009, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjcherryh

As a creator of e-books, I find mobi easier to work with: you don't have to stitch and paste huge files and then discover you got something in the wrong order. Much easier to edit, and you can do a partial and test the result to see if something works correctly, or if your flowing text actually displays right.

With ePub you have to just close your eyes, push the button, and hope. And wipe it and go work with another software to prep it, then try again.

That's not my experience at all, I find it much easier to work with ePUB, although you have to create some metadata and TOC files which are not needed in Mobi. But you can test XHTML in a browser, and you can create the ePUB just by zipping, whereas Mobi involves some custom HTML and opaque transformations.

Valloric · 07-02-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netseeker

Hopefully Sony will publish a firmware update soon...

I've stopped holding my breath a while ago. I doubt any firmware update is forthcoming. It appears they are working on the next Reader and have stopped actively supporting the 505.

On a side note: I've missed this entire thread! And it became so nice and technical and everything... baaah, I really need to keep a closer eye on the "News" subforum...

netseeker · 07-02-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valloric

I've stopped holding my breath a while ago. I doubt any firmware update is forthcoming. It appears they are working on the next Reader and have stopped actively supporting the 505.

As i wrote earlier: Hope dies last. ePub is almost THE eBook format in europe and the PRS-505 is still a "new" device here. I'm really still hoping that Sony will offer us another firmware update soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valloric

On a side note: I've missed this entire thread! And it became so nice and technical and everything... baaah, I really need to keep a closer eye on the "News" subforum...

Shame on you!

tompe · 07-02-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netseeker

As i wrote earlier: Hope dies last. ePub is almost THE eBook format in europe and the PRS-505 is still a "new" device here. I'm really still hoping that Sony will offer us another firmware update soon.

To add another observation. During the weekend there was an article in on of the big morning papers saying that publishers in Sweden had agreed on using ePub and saying that it was a bad idea buying a reader not supporting ePub.

ahi · 07-03-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

ePub is the best format for future compatibility. And it's going to be the best format for reading across different devices.

Ever heard the expression "broken record"?

- Ahi

pdurrant · 07-03-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahi

Ever heard the expression "broken record"?

or "The pot calling the kettle black."

I like that we have a variety of opinions here at mobileread. Even if all the rest of you are wrong and I'm always right.

Except when I'm wrong, of course. But that never happens.

menneske · 10-03-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

ePub is the best format for future compatibility. And it's going to be the best format for reading across different devices.

just as long as it's not poetry. Breaking the lines and making prose of meticously designed poetry basically kills poetry.

Ankh · 10-04-2010, 09:14 AM

OMG... a thread with hopes for PRS505 firmware upgrade? This stuff is ancient.

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07-01-2009, 07:47 PM	#77
Teddman Addict Posts: 242 Karma: 695 Join Date: Jun 2009 Device: Sony PRS-505	Yes, but isn't it still true that text alignment isn't adjustable as a user setting? I.E. if the ePub file was not set up with full justification, you can't toggle it. Here's a blog post on the subject: Adobe Digital Editions does justification - but has a way to go

07-01-2009, 08:42 PM	#79
Abecedary Exwyzeeologist Posts: 535 Karma: 3261 Join Date: Jun 2009 Device: :PRS-505::iPod touch:	In order to have good justification you need to have the ability to handle on-the-fly hyphenation. In order to have on-the-fly hyphenation, you need to have an internal dictionary of common words and where to appropriately break them. All this stuff starts adding up pretty fast. Especially if you intend to make your device available in markets that speak different languages. Yes, it'll get here, but when we're still dealing with issues like properly handling dropcaps and headers/footers (and not just using workarounds) it looks like it might be a short ways off.

07-01-2009, 09:06 PM	#81
jgray Fanatic Posts: 554 Karma: 2928497 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Clara 2E & Sage	Justification can be specified in the epub ebook, but the reader can override this. The current jetBook firmware ignores it and you set your choice via a menu option. Without really good hyphenation, I prefer ragged-right. Even with good hyphenation, some material just breaks funny when fully justified.

10-04-2010, 09:14 AM	#90
Ankh Guru Posts: 714 Karma: 2003751 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Ottawa, ON Device: Kobo Glo HD	OMG... a thread with hopes for PRS505 firmware upgrade? This stuff is ancient.