what about limiting certain areas the site until someone has been a member "x" long?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by beppe

why should they? posts without reply or comments are not that exciting. If there is a pattern, lurkers and new comers are likely to discern it. On MR people tend to be intelligent and cultured.

no, it's called acquiesence. or nobody spoke up, or someone else will stick up for me when the bad guys come.

I;m the type that will (and has done) a full body cannonball into a fight when I see someone being beaten up. I cannot and will not stand aside or sit on my hands.

I refuse to watch when words are posted that I certainly cannot abide by and do not believe that the "group" I am associating with could or would abide by. yes, I understand there are mods... but they aren't always there. just like in real life, the people that should be there aren't always

[FlorenceArt]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

You are either misremembering things or have a vastly different definition of what constitutes "reasonable" and "trolling" than I do. It was full-speed, double-barreled (yep, a mixed metaphor) trolling from the very first post onward:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=82

LOL, you're right, I had forgotten that first post. Still, it isn't worse than what some regular members post sometimes.

[roger the rabbit]

So why don't we all respònd to (what we consider) trolling posts by just a single line saying something like.

*Your post is inflammatory and considered to be trolling*

That way it is neither feeding the troll or acquiesence

If enough did maybe they will get fed up. (Might save the mod's some work)

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by roger the rabbit

So why don't we all respònd to (what we consider) trolling posts by just a single line saying something like.

*Your post is inflammatory and considered to be trolling*

That way it is neither feeding the troll or acquiesence

Genuine trolls will take that as a provocation, and start a discussion about how he's not trolling at all, and you are an intolerant... at least a one-way discussion.

Really, the best way to deal with trolls is ignoring them. And I don't think an unchallenged trollish statement has any implicit support, when people agree with something they tend to say that explicitly, even if it's just with "ditto" or "+1".

[roger the rabbit]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Genuine trolls will take that as a provocation, and start a discussion about how he's not trolling at all, and you are an intolerant... at least a one-way discussion.

But that's just the point! it is only a one way conversation if the only response is the one line comment they'll get fed up eventually surely.

Really, the best way to deal with trolls is ignoring them. And I don't think an unchallenged trollish statement has any implicit support, when people agree with something they tend to say that explicitly, even if it's just with "ditto" or "+1".

I agree the best response is if nobody posts any replies but that ain't going to happen. But if most of the replies are *Your post is . . . . . .

It was just an idea (I'm 2-0 down at the moment )

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

You are either misremembering things or have a vastly different definition of what constitutes "reasonable" and "trolling" than I do. It was full-speed, double-barreled (yep, a mixed metaphor) trolling from the very first post onward:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=82

I didn't see it as trolling myself - maybe because it's not an issue that I'm particularly bothered about.

There are other issues that come up in the Lounge, which are important to me, when I have to bite my tongue to stop responding - but I just put a lot of it down to cultural differences, or ill-informed opinions.
Also, I try to remember that people have a right not to care about stuff that I take seriously. So, flippant remarks aren't often intended to offend my sensibilities, they're just someone treating an issue less seriously than I choose to.
I wouldn't like to see a trial period before people are allowed to post in the Lounge, it seems a bit elitist and implies the default position is not to trust newbies.

[Cyberman tM]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I didn't see it as trolling myself - maybe because it's not an issue that I'm particularly bothered about.

Interesting.
To me his post is something that makes we want to punch the author.
I don't even think it's the issue at hand that aggravates me, but rather the attitude.
I don't like it when people come down to me telling me how inferior I am and how they are all enlightened and superior.
Doesn't really matter if they're religious or atheists.
--

To get on topic: I don't think there is much to do against trolling. It WILL happen. More moderation (as in mods as well as keeping calm) is necessary.
Preventing people from posting only annoys the "good" posters.

As someone suggested - proofreading all posts before publishing MIGHT help to reduce troll-only posters. But it's a lot of work.

[GlenBarrington]

It's the internet, none of them will reduce flamewars, trolls, bad language, or general crankiness. They will make using this site unpleasant or expensive to use in either time or money, however.

All of the suggestions would be perfect for turning this site into an exclusive little club of like minded individuals though. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe not; but it would guarantee that the site's influence in the world of eReader devices and the people who use them would atrophy to the point of irrelevance.

The only thing that MIGHT work is take away the abilitiy to edit or remove posts. Eventually, the knowledge that everything posted will remain in 'the cloud' forever as originally posted, will cause SOME people to show some restraint.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

Interesting.
To me his post is something that makes we want to punch the author.
I don't even think it's the issue at hand that aggravates me, but rather the attitude.
I don't like it when people come down to me telling me how inferior I am and how they are all enlightened and superior.
Doesn't really matter if they're religious or atheists.
--

Yes, the tone of the post gave the impression that the poster was thrusting a point of view onto the debate. But in itself, like Sparrow I didn't read anything there that was troll-like.

It takes more than one post before a pattern emerges, unless I am naive in thinking that sensible posters are not allowed to hold certain views in case they upset others.

Which leads to the question of how can we as a group have sensible conversation, or debates, without someone being accused of trolling.

To me a troll is someone who deliberately starts with a provocative statement and then accelerates that point of view through the debate - but is that not, also, what a convincing debater would do.

It's a fine line between the two, and unless the poster is a definite newbie, it is difficult to judge.

[EowynCarter]

I wouldn't like to see a trial period before people are allowed to post in the Lounge, it seems a bit elitist and implies the default position is not to trust newbies.

Exactly.

The only thing that MIGHT work is take away the abilitiy to edit or remove posts. Eventually, the knowledge that everything posted will remain in 'the cloud' forever as originally posted, will cause SOME people to show some restraint.

I need the edit button. I can't get spelling right first time.

[FlorenceArt]

Many forums allow editing only for a limited period (15 minutes, 1 hours) after posting. Or, editing becomes impossible as soon as someone has replied. It's nice to be able to edit a post at any time, but it also creates a possibility for abuse.

[Cyberman tM]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

It takes more than one post before a pattern emerges, unless I am naive in thinking that sensible posters are not allowed to hold certain views in case they upset others.

You are of course right.
The first post (in a thread) alone shouldn't be the only reason to accuse someone of being a troll.
In hindsight, I know I probably have acted similar before - and quite likely will again. (Each time, of course, feeling like an idiot. Never learning when to stop.)
I hope though, that my postings never fall to the level of "No, u!". (Which, in my opinion, is what the other poster can be reduced to.)

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

It's nice to be able to edit a post at any time, but it also creates a possibility for abuse.

But the possibility to remove/reword stupid posts is even greater. I know I have edited posts countless times after I hit "send", because only then I realized that my wording was needlessly agressive.
I have begun to use the preview button - though I still mistrust it. Still, editing a posting is important.

I don't think it's good to remove reasonable tools just because they might be used by trolls.

More mods are a better way. I don't think there are many forums who are too much moderated. (Perhaps too aggressively, but that regulates itself when the forum dies out - or thrives despite the moderation.)

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I didn't see it as trolling myself - maybe because it's not an issue that I'm particularly bothered about.

I'll acquiesce that the post might not count as "trolling" in the sense of a troll being "a person who said something that he does not believe but says it only with the intent of causing discord"-- the poster may have sincerely believed exactly what he was saying. I thought of him more as the traditional definition of a troll-- a slimly, possibly somewhat reptillian creature who oozes out from under a rock to block the paths of normal people minding their own business in order to harass and threaten them with their insane troll logic. Think "The Three Billy Goats Gruff."

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

Many forums allow editing only for a limited period (15 minutes, 1 hours) after posting. Or, editing becomes impossible as soon as someone has replied. It's nice to be able to edit a post at any time, but it also creates a possibility for abuse.

it's also nice to have when heavily medicated and then go back the next day and try to figure out where your head was at, and just say "the hell with it" and remove it. unfortunately we can't completely remove our own posts, but at least we can try to make them less offensive

[beppe]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

no, it's called acquiesence. or nobody spoke up, or someone else will stick up for me when the bad guys come.

I;m the type that will (and has done) a full body cannonball into a fight when I see someone being beaten up. I cannot and will not stand aside or sit on my hands.

I refuse to watch when words are posted that I certainly cannot abide by and do not believe that the "group" I am associating with could or would abide by. yes, I understand there are mods... but they aren't always there. just like in real life, the people that should be there aren't always

Me neither and my brow proves it*, but ...
One thing is to speak up for an argument, an other is to fall for a provocation. And an other yet is to fiddle with the rules.

I prefer to keep my head clear and not to hit who is provoking me, but his friend who is standing by, so at least one is down and I might have a better chance because of the surprise. I can still kick a knee by the way.



biondo era e bello e di gentile aspetto,
ma l'un de' cigli un colpo avea diviso.

was blonde and beautiful and noble aspect,
But one of his' eyebrows had a blow divided.