Texas Board of Education at it again Banning textbooks

[mrscoach]

RSE, especially when one group gets in a tizzy and part of the members disappear out of state instead of meeting for a special called session.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by mrscoach

IF Texas should listen to what other states want, then aren't you saying the other states should dictate what Texans learn? How is that any different? It isn't Texas' fault that other states do not set their own standards, or they don't have enouth power to gt the publishers to listen.

I respect that you think you need to know what is happening with Texas education, but that is where it ends. You have no say on how we educate our children, because you aren't here and do not pay taxes here and did not vote for the SBOE. Each state, and even local government, must take care of their own people over the people elsewhere.

You are upset because you see us as dictating what to teach your children, but isn't that what you are trying to do to us? I think I just repeated myself from the first paragraph, but I think this is an important point.

We can debate this for weeks on this board, but it will not change anything. If you are really upset about it then maybe you should find out how to change things on your local level instead of trying to change another state.

Well, it's much bigger than just TX. I'm guessing by your reaction that you are in agreement with what the selection committee wants to do?

[mrscoach]

I know it isn't really going to change things, one way or the other. I just get upset that people think that Texas should think of others before ourselves.

I'll be the first to admit that the textbook committee has a hard enough time in deciding what is best for Texans, if other states were thrown in the mix the result would be never having textbooks approved. There is always controvery surrounding textbook adoptions, because of special interest groups wanting to have their way.

Once again, other states CANNOT be the main concern of the SBOE textbook committee. They should concentrate on their goal of adopting textbooks that meet the criteria put forth by the SBOE and TEA. (State Board Of Education and Texas Education Agency)

[kennyc]

Nor did I say they should be the MAIN CONCERN. I said the needs of education in the country as a whole should be considered in full knowledge of the implications of that decision which reach far beyond the borders of a single state.

Decisions can never be made in total isolation because we are all on this ride together.

[mrscoach]

But if we think something is best for our children why would we think it wasn't good for other states?

I still say you should find out how your state goes about approving textbooks and get involved in some way if it is so important to you.

I'm out.

[SameOldStory]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Decisions can never be made in total isolation because we are all on this ride together.

Now there is a slippery slope.

But I guess that is what all the brew haha is about. Others looking in and saying that you are wrong and that they know better.

After that comes laws and enforcement. But if the majority thinks that it is necessary, it will be done.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by mrscoach

I respect that you think you need to know what is happening with Texas education, but that is where it ends. You have no say on how we educate our children,

We do if TX is using federal tax dollars to promote a religion, or to discriminate against other religions.

Which is the reason TX's standards get national & sometimes international attention, and CA's standards, which are just as specific and just as likely to push its values onto other states, are only mentioned in passing when the debates go around. CA's standards are pushing an ideology; they're not pushing a specific religion's beliefs.

However, whether the books in question are being changed in order to promote Christianity, or if they actually had a pro-Islam bias (which I very much doubt) isn't something that can be established based on a few fragments or quotes. We can debate the what-ifs; we can't reach any useful conclusions about what's going on with these specific books.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

We do if TX is using federal tax dollars to promote a religion, or to discriminate against other religions.

Which is the reason TX's standards get national & sometimes international attention, and CA's standards, which are just as specific and just as likely to push its values onto other states, are only mentioned in passing when the debates go around. CA's standards are pushing an ideology; they're not pushing a specific religion's beliefs.

However, whether the books in question are being changed in order to promote Christianity, or if they actually had a pro-Islam bias (which I very much doubt) isn't something that can be established based on a few fragments or quotes. We can debate the what-ifs; we can't reach any useful conclusions about what's going on with these specific books.

Ideology vs. religion...To quote Bullwinkle (out of context), "There's a difference?"

What's the difference between promoting a defined religion or Marxist dialectic? A Godhead? Both say they're right, both are intolerant of apostates...(And don't waive tax deductions. Look at all the "secular" non-profits (tax deductable donations and non tax paying organizations) that preach their worldview, and have their own religion martyrs (GreenPeace, anyone?)...

[GeoffC]

Slightly different topic ....

BBC link

In the US more and more parents are pressing schools to withdraw books with bad language or sexual content. But should children's books be restricted in this way?

There is a battle being fought in America over books.

The skirmishes see concerned parents "challenge" books which are being used in schools.
Continue reading the main story
In today's Magazine

* Why are parents banning books?
* Kicking against austerity - with cakes
* Why are e-fits so tricky?
* 7 days news quiz

Other parents are fighting for the right of their children to go into their school library and pick up those very same books.

The issue is being highlighted by the American Library Association during its Banned Books Week.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Ideology vs. religion...To quote Bullwinkle (out of context), "There's a difference?"

One difference is that most religions require a belief in something for which there can be no evidence and, as such, are not amenable to rational discussion. Most ideologies claim some kind of empirical grounding, and whilst this grounding, and its implications, can be disputed, such disputes take place within the bounds of reason.

For example, if "the forces of production" - to use a concept from your example of an ideology - cannot be demonstrated to be operating in the world then that concept has no more than rhetorical value. I may disagree with my Marxist friend about the best way of organising society, but we can discuss this and at least be talking about the same sort of thing. I cannot enter into a meaningful rational dialogue with someone whose religious views posit the existence of supernatural beings and explain the world in terms of these beings' actions.

[SameOldStory]

It may all be moot.

President Obama: School year must be extended by month for US students to compete with China, India

""There's nothing more important than the issue we're talking about today," he said.

Students in China, India and other fast-growing countries are already leaving U.S. students in the dust, he said."

"Asked about incompetent teachers, Obama agreed there were some bad apples in the classrooms and that they need to be removed."

The man has a plan, and I'm sure it is more than just extending the school year by one month. Now we just need to see how he intends to fix the problem in this country.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Slightly different topic ....

BBC link

In the US more and more parents are pressing schools to withdraw books with bad language or sexual content. But should children's books be restricted in this way?

There is a battle being fought in America over books.

The skirmishes see concerned parents "challenge" books which are being used in schools.


Other parents are fighting for the right of their children to go into their school library and pick up those very same books.

The issue is being highlighted by the American Library Association during its Banned Books Week.

Thanks for that Geoff! Definitely along the same lines...

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

It may all be moot.

President Obama: School year must be extended by month for US students to compete with China, India

""There's nothing more important than the issue we're talking about today," he said.

Students in China, India and other fast-growing countries are already leaving U.S. students in the dust, he said."

"Asked about incompetent teachers, Obama agreed there were some bad apples in the classrooms and that they need to be removed."

The man has a plan, and I'm sure it is more than just extending the school year by one month. Now we just need to see how he intends to fix the problem in this country.

Thanks for this - not directly related to this thread, but definitely associated. I posted this link a bit ago in a separate thread. If you'd like to discuss it, let's do it there please.

[SameOldStory]

Thanks Kenny. I thought that was a new story.

What's the link?

[nguirado]

Let me demonstrate the difficulty:

You can't talk about history without talking about religion- a lot. Sorry. If you mention it, you have to talk about its effect on society (this doesn't have to do with a supreme being- I reject your analysis).

Now, you can talk about it in a positive way or a negative way. You can mention the hospitals, universities, the increase in dignity for slaves and women (who were nothing in pagan Europe), the preservation of antiquity, "peace of God," etc. or you can talk about the Crusades (which are much more complicated, as I've mentioned).

You can say that saying positive things about the effects of Christianity is "promoting" it, but then why isn't saying negative things attacking it, which is also bad, no?

Now, to return to a previous theme. Islam and other religions are treated more respectfully by liberals because those are seen as the oppressed religions in the West and the left in the West has a long history of antagonism towards Christianity, which stands in the way of many of its dreams. Isn't really as simple as that?

Left histories treat Aztec religion more respectfully than Christianity. In my kids school, Aztec dancers were much more frequent than anything remotely Christian even though most parents were Christians. Weird, huh?