Would you delete a copy of the Koran?

[Tom Wood]

Yes I would.

[EatingPie]

Originally Posted by Tom Wood

Yes I would.

My first reaction was... "You would what??" Then I remembered there was actually a topic to this thread!

-Pie

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by EatingPie

My first reaction was... "You would what??"

He Wood Tom.

[FlorenceArt]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

start with "Dungeon Fire and Sword" by John J. Robinson. it gives a good overview of the crusades, the church invovlement in it, your own country, their involvement and how they were completely manipulated by the pope.

You know, you got me curious and I think I will read up on the crusades, but not this book. Based on the Amazon reviews, this is the kind of history book that puts more emphasis on entertainment than on historical accuracy, and I don't think I would enjoy it. But I will visit the library today and try to find a book on this subject.

[harryE123]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You would learn a great deal more if you were to read it, rather than delete it. People are fearful of what they don't understand.

yeah, well, I 've read some of it and there wasn't much there to "understand", the usual archetypical religious stuff but more vile than usual.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

You know, you got me curious and I think I will read up on the crusades, but not this book. Based on the Amazon reviews, this is the kind of history book that puts more emphasis on entertainment than on historical accuracy, and I don't think I would enjoy it. But I will visit the library today and try to find a book on this subject.

*shrug* out of 52 reviews 10 were 3 star and below. that's actually pretty good for a book of this nature. when I recommended it, I was quickly scanning my mental files for a good/quick overview of a period of history that you were obviously struggling with. I wasn't trying to give you the top of the academic list.

[FlorenceArt]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

*shrug* out of 52 reviews 10 were 3 star and below. that's actually pretty good for a book of this nature. when I recommended it, I was quickly scanning my mental files for a good/quick overview of a period of history that you were obviously struggling with. I wasn't trying to give you the top of the academic list.

Thank you for your concern, but if I am struggling it is to gain a better in-depth understanding of a period I already know something about, not to get an oversimplified judgment possibly tinted by a religious bias.

I noticed before that the most useful reviews on Amazon are the ones with the lowest rating, because they can tell me immediately if a book has problems that will be show stoppers for me. It was true in this case, although the 5 star reviews were also informative. When I read history books, I am not looking for gripping tales of adventures, I am looking for considered and (as far as possible) objective research presented in a form I can understand and enjoy.

Both the good and the bad reviews mentioned the lack of footnotes. I don't think it would have occurred to me to judge a book by whether or not it has footnotes, but in the case of a history book, the presence of footnotes and a bibliography suggests that the authors has sources to back his assertions, so presumably he has made some serious research. I don't necessarily want to read all the boring details of this research, but I would much rather have some external references and hints of proof, rather than a gripping tale about knights and Saracens that I have no means of verifying.

Also, a couple of the negative reviews mention factual errors and an anti-catholic bias of the book.

Plus, I have to admit that the fact the book is actually about the knights templar does nothing to reassure me. I suppose there must be some serious and objective books written on that subject, but I would not bet on it, and I am not sure this is one of them.

[harryE123]

Offensive post deleted. We will not tolerate "hate speech", as is clearly stated in our posting guidelines.

MR Moderating Team

[FlorenceArt]

Oh crap. I'm out of here, again, don't know why I even bother.

[harryE123]

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

Oh crap. I'm out of here, again, don't know why I even bother.

Strange...

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by harryE123

I would wager that it's probably the worst civilization on the globe.

And I don't think that there is any such thing as "the Muslim civilization." There are countries where the religion is primarily one or more of the sects of Islam, but that no more makes up a "civilization" than thinking Brazil and Romania are part of a monolithic "Christian civilization." And I think that the main thing keeping Islam aggressive (where it is aggressive) is the absence of personal wealth for most of the individuals in primarily Muslim countries, which tend to be in the worst parts of the world (deserts and the disease infested tropics-- think of Guns, Germs, and Steel.) Raise the average person in the Islamic world to the same standard of health, wealth, and general contentment as in the 1st world, and Islam would be shriveling away just like Christianity is. (Okay, a billion people still play at Christianity, but it is only a pale shadow of the actual belief in all that stuff from as recently as a century ago.)

It was only a few centuries ago (when standards of living were at a similar generally miserable level of filth, disease and poverty on both sides) that the Islamic world was superior to Europe in almost any way you could measure-- so it isn't a fundamental limitation of the religious beliefs.

http://salems2.tripod.com/islamic_ba...of_western.htm

http://salems2.tripod.com/islamic_ba...f_western2.htm

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

Oh crap. I'm out of here, again, don't know why I even bother.

Damn, and I was waiting for you and kitty to get past the heated words to the hair pulling.

[GeoffC]

Raise the average person in the Islamic world to the same standard of health, wealth, and general contentment as in the 1st world, and Islam would be shriveling away just like Christianity is

Where is this "1st World?"

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Where is this "1st World?"

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=1st+world

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Where is this "1st World?"

The "1st World" (or the "old world") is the term generally given to Europe. The "New World" is the Americas, and the "3rd World" everywhere else. Terribly Euro-centric, of course.