Texas Board of Education at it again Banning textbooks

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

However, it is my view that anyone who lives in Western Civilization who has never read the New Testament cannot consider himself to be an educated man.

Since the New Testament is exactly that -- New -- perhaps you meant the Old Testament. After all, how can one understand Christ's teachings if one doesn't understand the religious world of Christ, which was Judaism and what we call the Old Testament.

Sadly, if the standard were the New Testament, no one could truly ever be called educated based on your criterion because there are so many variations and interpretations of the New Testament, it is impossible to know which is truly the authentic word of God.

The New Testament is much like the child's game of telephone -- it depends who heard it, who wrote, and who interpreted it. Even the committee members who finally came to compromise on the King James version had to come to compromise. Seems to me that the word of God is not subject to compromise so that if interpretive compromises had to be made, they cannot be the word of God; they are the word of the interpreters.

Of course there is the belief, which has as much validity as any of those espoused by organized religion, that religion is simply the opiate of mankind.

[m-reader]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Yeah but to favor something that the majority of people don't believe is not good. The constitution also protects the culture of the nation. So if theres too much Islam coming out of these books.... got to censor it.

Taliban ideas and catching on it seems ...

Ignorance and stupidity know no bounds. At least most of the original Talibans live up in primitive almost medieval conditions (e.g. no access to TV, internet, education, no democracy, etc.).
Now Texas I gather is a bit more advanced. So what is your excuse?

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Since the New Testament is exactly that -- New -- perhaps you meant the Old Testament. After all, how can one understand Christ's teachings if one doesn't understand the religious world of Christ, which was Judaism and what we call the Old Testament.

Sadly, if the standard were the New Testament, no one could truly ever be called educated based on your criterion because there are so many variations and interpretations of the New Testament, it is impossible to know which is truly the authentic word of God.

The New Testament is much like the child's game of telephone -- it depends who heard it, who wrote, and who interpreted it. Even the committee members who finally came to compromise on the King James version had to come to compromise. Seems to me that the word of God is not subject to compromise so that if interpretive compromises had to be made, they cannot be the word of God; they are the word of the interpreters.

Of course there is the belief, which has as much validity as any of those espoused by organized religion, that religion is simply the opiate of mankind.

Wow.
I could not have put it better.

Presumably none of the group around Jesus ever kept diaries, so at what stage did the oral tradition become writing, and in that time-line how much of what was remembered is really what happened. And then one has to consider the different interpretations placed onto available scrolls (etc) by individual popes, and one definitely wonders how much of the original can remain untouched. It may be the Word of God, but how many editors and sub-editors and copyists had their opportunities to adjust the story along the way!

A nice quote in a recent newspaper suggested the Bible is how one is expected to travel on the journey to Heaven (and Hell); whilst Science explains how they exist.

But no matter what any book of religion states, it is the interpretation by groups/individuals that matters now.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by HarryT

All sockpuppets of terrazoids. All now banned. Terrazoids has now been banned permanently.

I predict that this will not help his chances of selling his DR1000.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Presumably none of the group around Jesus ever kept diaries, so at what stage did the oral tradition become writing, and in that time-line how much of what was remembered is really what happened.

What I think about is-- look at all the rumors and legends that quickly cropped up after the deaths of Elvis, JFK, Hitler (not a Godwin) and so many other famously dead. All of them survive their death and go into hiding somewhere, where they are/were occasionally sited. Complete distortions and misrememberings and utter fabrications start days after an event (if not minutes) so imagine what can happen in a century, in a time without photographs and newspapers and television to make any tangible record of an event.

[Tom Wood]

I'm from Texas and I apologize to the rest of the nation for our lunacy.

To understand the source, you have to know that the Republican party here is mostly Christian Dominionist in flavor, and they are firmly in control of state government. To see how loony they are, read their party platform:

Texas GOP Party Platform

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kennyc

So, to get back to the topic at hand....

How should text books be selected?
any thoughts?

Surely the simple answer is for the individual school or teacher to choose what textbooks they wish to use. Why do politicians have to get involved at all?

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by Tom Wood

I'm from Texas and I apologize to the rest of the nation for our lunacy.

To understand the source, you have to know that the Republican party here is mostly Christian Dominionist in flavor, and they are firmly in control of state government. To see how loony they are, read their party platform:

Texas GOP Party Platform

no need to apologise, we understand .....

[kennyc]

Well I agree to a large extent Harry, but I also am of the opinion that we need to (in the words of CSN&Y) "teach our children well." And one way of doing that is by having somewhat consistent guidelines for the schools.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by nguirado

This is why we need to take a look at these textbooks. Crusaders were defending Christians from Muslim attacks (at one time, Egypt, the holy land, and Asia Minor were Christian. Islam conquered Spain, but Spanish Crusaders won it back) and regaining the Holy Land from the Muslims to protect pilgrims.

I like to ask people what they would have done if they were the Christians, convert?

Why not? The Messiah did!

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Christianity is the backbone of Western Civilization. Western Civilization is the result of Christianity meeting the Classical Civilization. IMO to treat Christianity as just one of many religions is to turn our backs on Western Civilization, and I think it is highly improper for an American public school system to do that.

That is not to say that the govt should teach the children that they ought to be believing Christians. That's for the parents to decide. However, it is my view that anyone who lives in Western Civilization who has never read the New Testament cannot consider himself to be an educated man.

There is much to commend that point of view, however I would add my own belief that anyone who lives in Western Civilization who has never read the Hebrew Bible as well cannot consider himself to be adequately educated. It wasn't just New Testament teachings that helped to mold Western civilization. In addition, I think the influence of pre-Christian Greek and Roman thought has not been given it's due in the schools. Before Christianity shaped modern Western thought, Greek and Roman philosophy and political models shaped Christianity and the Church. There have been other peripheral influences over the centuries, but I think these are the main ones to understand if we are to consider ourselves as having a functional education in Western culture.

As for teaching about Islam, I think it's important as well if for no better reason than it is the belief system of a large portion of the world's population (as well as many here in the United States), and in our ever-shrinking globe we need to learn how to deal amiably with other cultures.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Actually, Judaism is the backbone of western civilization. Christians tend to forget that Jesus was born a Jew, died a Jew, and preached reform Judaism. It was a century after Jesus' death that christianity was founded. The principles of western civilization are Jewish principles subsequently given a Christian slant by the founders of Christianity. That's why it is usually referred to as Judeo-Christian civilization.

Good point.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Surely the simple answer is for the individual school or teacher to choose what textbooks they wish to use. Why do politicians have to get involved at all?

I can come up with three simple, obvious problems with letting individual teachers decide, off the top of my head:

1) Economic: the school can afford more books & other things if it buys textbooks in bulk, rather than 1 classroom's worth at a time. That also gives them a bit of cushion in case of lost/stolen/damaged textbooks--if the the entire district is using the same book, spares are available; if each classroom is using something different, the student who spills a drink/loses his backpack/home is destroyed in a flood has no book.

2) Standardization: if every teacher is creating a different curriculum, how can other teachers develop compatible lesson plans? If 6th year children learn "World History" from an unknown book or set of books, how can the 7th year world history teacher decide what to cover? She doesn't know what they've already learned. How do literature teachers across several years avoid using the same short story or essay?

3) Avoiding the crazy: Some teachers have an *agenda*. Might be their own religion, might be some form of social activism, might be their personal beliefs. How do you prevent teachers from pushing conspiracy theory or religion or weird pet projects, if they get to choose the teaching materials without oversight? (If they do have oversight--it's still too much. The district can't possibly review several thousand individual teachers' individual choices for books in different classes.)

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Tom Wood

I'm from Texas and I apologize to the rest of the nation for our lunacy.

To understand the source, you have to know that the Republican party here is mostly Christian Dominionist in flavor, and they are firmly in control of state government. To see how loony they are, read their party platform:

Texas GOP Party Platform

10. Restoring American sovereignty

Over what?

Graham

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Actually, Judaism is the backbone of western civilization. Christians tend to forget that Jesus was born a Jew, died a Jew, and preached reform Judaism. It was a century after Jesus' death that christianity was founded. The principles of western civilization are Jewish principles subsequently given a Christian slant by the founders of Christianity. That's why it is usually referred to as Judeo-Christian civilization.

As for understanding Jesus, I agree. You can't begin to understand who Jesus was without a good grasp of his Jewish underpinnings. There is a vast difference in my opinion between the man, his teachings, and the subsequent religion that was founded in his name.