Texas Board of Education at it again Banning textbooks

[kennyc]

So, to get back to the topic at hand....

How should text books be selected?
any thoughts?

What might we do to help alleviate this kind of "stacking the cards" at a possibly national level?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

You're welcome. It's my hope that everyone here can feel free to discuss weighty issues without personal attacks or ridicule whether they be Christian, Muslim, agnostic, atheist, or anything else. R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

have to pat my own back... I spam reported him too even before I bet the 20

Originally Posted by kennyc

Yes. So true in many aspects of our lives, not just religion.

I see quite a few bumper stickers around here like this:



Which I (and as so well said above) many others agree with. The issues come (whether in religion or other areas) when views start getting pushed upon others.

I used to have one on my last car, haven't seen them lately

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

Have to admit, I'm hoping it is just one guy being obnoxious, and not somewhere like 4chan having a bit of fun with us (purely on the number of people involved if it's a group effort, and not just one guy)

I guess it's a wait and see sort of deal?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by kennyc

So, to get back to the topic at hand....

How should text books be selected?
any thoughts?

What might we do to help alleviate this kind of "stacking the cards" at a possibly national level?

pick 3 states at random, say COnneticut, Iowa and Wyoming and have them jointly set the standard. using Texas is just silly

[kennyc]

Well I think the TX and CA thing is by default, not official. It's that they buy more textbooks from the publishers than any of the other states so they get to "throw their weight around" wrt what they want, or don't want, in the books....

But your idea of selecting a set of states is a good one I think!

[mrscoach]

Texas always has problems when it comes to adopting textbooks. Fighting about it seems to be a favorite pasttime.

The reason they seem to 'throw their weight around' is that they DO set standards the publishers have to meet to get on the approved list. If pubishers don't meet the standards the state won't pay for the books. This does not mean a school cannot buy what they want, just that it comes out of some other budget. If another state's approved books meet the standards, then Texas would approve them for use.

[Amalthia]

Originally Posted by kennyc

So, to get back to the topic at hand....

How should text books be selected?
any thoughts?

What might we do to help alleviate this kind of "stacking the cards" at a possibly national level?

Why not use the university textbooks? If they are good enough for college students and professors have approved them then they should be good enough for high school teenagers.

[mrscoach]

Amalthia, I've seen some horrible college textbooks, mainly because the teacher wrote them. Also, we aren't just talking about high school, but elementary and junior high. Colleges don't teach the same classes as even high schools do, either.

A high school freshman English studen't doesn't need to take a college level English course. They aren't ready for that level of instruction.

If they did take the same courses then what use would the college classes be?

Another problem with using standard textbooks across the nation is that each state has its own tests to satisfy NCLB (no child left behind). Unless each state uses the same standardized test they need texts to support their own state.

[nguirado]

I would like to think that a majority of Texans, even if they are Christian, see the Crusaders as "invaders" and "violent attackers". That was the only example that the article gave of objectionable material, and I'd have a tough time disagreeing with that assessment of the Crusaders.

This is why we need to take a look at these textbooks. Crusaders were defending Christians from Muslim attacks (at one time, Egypt, the holy land, and Asia Minor were Christian. Islam conquered Spain, but Spanish Crusaders won it back) and regaining the Holy Land from the Muslims to protect pilgrims.

I like to ask people what they would have done if they were the Christians, convert?

[GraceKrispy]

As a teacher, I've never actually had textbooks from which to teach. I've always used original source material as much as possible, or other types of text, etc, to teach various concepts. I wasn't, however, teaching an academic area at the high school or middle school level. So I'm not sure what the answer is for textbook selection.

I remember the light going on for me at one point in high school when something the history teacher said struck me-- history books are fallible. They are subjective accounts. For some reason, that really opened up my thinking.

I've never really been an "in the box" kind of person, my kids are not either. I taught my students the kinds of things I wanted my own kids taught. I like to think I helped teach kids a love of learning, and how to think, not just to sit down and shut up. Of course, the system in which public school teachers must teach really can limit what teachers can do. In the government's desire to step in and get involved and "fix" education, they've made it worse and more standardized. Combine that with a decline in family involvement/support, and there is a lot that needs fixing.

And lucky teachers, because they are on the front line, get the blame. I can honestly say, after working in several states in many districts, I have met many more qualified teachers who put their heart and soul into their jobs than I have met crappy teachers. But yes, I have met crappy teachers. Unfortunately, from the "reform" initiatives I have heard of out there, I really think the public school system in the US is going to decline before it gets better.

<---random ramblings from me.... y'all know education is one of my sticky spots! birthing options and breastfeeding are another, just in the interest of full disclosure....

[GA Russell]

I see a couple of issues regarding the Texas situation.

The first is that in the current textbooks, Islam is given more favorable treatment than Christianity. For example, twice as much text. For another example, one textbook discussed the benefits of Islam without discussing the benefits of Christianity.

I don't think that it's unreasonable for Texans (the vast majority of whom are Christian) to object to that.

But apparently the Texas govt wants all religions to be treated equally. I think that ignores our history and our culture.

Christianity is the backbone of Western Civilization. Western Civilization is the result of Christianity meeting the Classical Civilization. IMO to treat Christianity as just one of many religions is to turn our backs on Western Civilization, and I think it is highly improper for an American public school system to do that.

That is not to say that the govt should teach the children that they ought to be believing Christians. That's for the parents to decide. However, it is my view that anyone who lives in Western Civilization who has never read the New Testament cannot consider himself to be an educated man.

Furthermore, I see nothing at all wrong with teaching the youngsters that Western Civilization is the best in history so far. The civilization immediately east of Europe believes that there is nothing wrong with female circumcision. I see no need for the public schools to teach that one civilization is just as good as another.

One can be an atheist or a Jew and still be fully conversant of the teachings of the various Christian denominations that have made up America since the founding of the colonies. It is not an imposition of Christianity on children to teach them our civilization and our history.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

I see a couple of issues regarding the Texas situation.

The first is that in the current textbooks, Islam is given more favorable treatment than Christianity. For example, twice as much text. For another example, one textbook discussed the benefits of Islam without discussing the benefits of Christianity.

I don't think that it's unreasonable for Texans (the vast majority of whom are Christian) to object to that.

But apparently the Texas govt wants all religions to be treated equally. I think that ignores our history and our culture.

Christianity is the backbone of Western Civilization. Western Civilization is the result of Christianity meeting the Classical Civilization. IMO to treat Christianity as just one of many religions is to turn our backs on Western Civilization, and I think it is highly improper for an American public school system to do that.

That is not to say that the govt should teach the children that they ought to be believing Christians. That's for the parents to decide. However, it is my view that anyone who lives in Western Civilization who has never read the New Testament cannot consider himself to be an educated man.

Furthermore, I see nothing at all wrong with teaching the youngsters that Western Civilization is the best in history so far. The civilization immediately east of Europe believes that there is nothing wrong with female circumcision. I see no need for the public schools to teach that one civilization is just as good as another.

One can be an atheist or a Jew and still be fully conversant of the teachings of the various Christian denominations that have made up America since the founding of the colonies. It is not an imposition of Christianity on children to teach them our civilization and our history.

wow! there is so much wrong with this post that I don't even know where to begin! but it is late and I am tired, so I am just going to start with a misconception that I hope does not get out of hand

while female curcumcision is one of the most HORRID things to come out of ANY belief ANYWHERE, there is not a single "civilization" that believes in it. an unfortunate few sects in an unfortunate few countries have practiced over many years and it is becoming more and more rare

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

The civilization immediately east of Europe believes that there is nothing wrong with female circumcision.

Nyet!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

We're thinking along the same lines. I've already reported that "member" as well as AlQaedainDallas as being bogus and suggesting that their ISP be checked.

All sockpuppets of terrazoids. All now banned. Terrazoids has now been banned permanently.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Well I think the TX and CA thing is by default, not official. It's that they buy more textbooks from the publishers than any of the other states so they get to "throw their weight around" wrt what they want, or don't want, in the books....

But your idea of selecting a set of states is a good one I think!

Texas and California have state mandates, that is, only textbooks approved by state boards can be used in schools. Most other states leave the decision up to local school districts. Consequently, publishers cater to Texas and California because if they don't, they lose the opportunity to sell millions of books. But if they anger a local school district, they lose a sale of hundreds.

The way to combat Texas is to have more realistic states join forces as joint book buyers. The problem with choosing Connecticut and Iowa is that Connecticut closer to California and New York in outlook and Iowa generally is closer to Texas in outlook.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Christianity is the backbone of Western Civilization. Western Civilization is the result of Christianity meeting the Classical Civilization. IMO to treat Christianity as just one of many religions is to turn our backs on Western Civilization, and I think it is highly improper for an American public school system to do that.

Actually, Judaism is the backbone of western civilization. Christians tend to forget that Jesus was born a Jew, died a Jew, and preached reform Judaism. It was a century after Jesus' death that christianity was founded. The principles of western civilization are Jewish principles subsequently given a Christian slant by the founders of Christianity. That's why it is usually referred to as Judeo-Christian civilization.