Register Guidelines E-Books Today's Posts Search

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > Miscellaneous > Lounge

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-23-2010, 01:50 PM   #31
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383099
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
No, I didn't know that - that's very interesting!
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 01:54 PM   #32
Graham
Wizard
Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,742
Karma: 32912427
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Yorkshire, UK
Device: Kobo H20, Pixel 2, Samsung Chromebook Plus
Re: reopening the debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
That's certainly true, Neil.
Obviously you'll let us know if we step out of line, Harry, but at the moment I think we're on a slightly different topic - i.e. how to conduct an unprovable debate - and using the recently closed thread as an example, rather than continuing the debate from that thread.

Graham
Graham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 01:54 PM   #33
ardeegee
Maratus speciosus butt
ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
ardeegee's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,292
Karma: 1162698
Join Date: Sep 2009
Device: PRS-350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
There's nothing wrong with humour, but I daresay that, as someone who shares your views I found the videos funnier than someone who had opposing beliefs.
Again the target audience isn't true believers-- the audience is people who are willing to question. And a bit of satire/analogy can point out the silliness of beliefs (like the one about the hopping hamsters.) I don't expect the true believers to laugh along with me. The point is to show that something that they believe to the very heart of their being to be true and base their entire lives around to be silly superstition. It is saying that something that is taken very, very seriously by them, by their families, their friends, their community, and their culture is silly enough to be a big joke. In what way would you propose that one present that so that they "laugh with it" too? I don't think it likely to find a way that they won't be offended by that. We aren't attempting to laugh with them.

Last edited by ardeegee; 09-23-2010 at 01:57 PM.
ardeegee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 01:56 PM   #34
GrimRedBones
Banned
GrimRedBones began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 12
Karma: 10
Join Date: Sep 2010
Device: sony prs 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardeegee View Post
And I think a little (or a lot) of mocking can go further to show how silly some beliefs are than any amount of dry prose. Look at some of the bitingly funny videos I linked in the closed thread.
Don't you think though, that rippin on people who don't share your beliefs is just a little pointless. Mocking them is just gonna turn up the tension. And it doesn't show them how sill there beliefs are.
GrimRedBones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 01:57 PM   #35
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383099
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
Re: reopening the debate.



Obviously you'll let us know if we step out of line, Harry, but at the moment I think we're on a slightly different topic - i.e. how to conduct an unprovable debate - and using the recently closed thread as an example, rather than continuing the debate from that thread.

Graham
Given that I'm taking part in the debate myself, Graham, you may rest assured that I will make sure that I don't end up in the position of having to ban myself .
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 01:58 PM   #36
GrimRedBones
Banned
GrimRedBones began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 12
Karma: 10
Join Date: Sep 2010
Device: sony prs 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardeegee View Post
Again the target audience isn't true believers-- the audience is people who are willing to question. And a bit of satire/analogy can point out the silliness of beliefs (like the one about the hopping hamsters.) I don't expect the true believers to laugh along with me. The point is to show that something that they believe to the very heart of their being to be true and base their entire lives around to be silly superstition. It is saying that something that is taken very, very seriously by them, by their families, their friends, their community, and their culture is silly enough to be a big joke. In what way would you propose that one present that so that they "laugh with it" too? I don't think it likely to find a way that they won't be offended by that. We aren't attempting to laugh with them.
I'm not sure that people who are sitting on the fence are going to be impressed with the side which is just cracking jokes at the others expense.
GrimRedBones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 01:59 PM   #37
Graham
Wizard
Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,742
Karma: 32912427
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Yorkshire, UK
Device: Kobo H20, Pixel 2, Samsung Chromebook Plus
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardeegee View Post
Again the target audience isn't true believers-- the audience is people who are willing to question. And a bit of satire/analogy can point out the silliness of beliefs (like the one about the hopping hamsters.) I don't expect the true believers to laugh along with me. The point is to show that something that they believe to the very heart of their being to be true and base their entire lives around to be silly superstition. In what way would you propose that one present that so that they "laugh with it" too? We aren't attempting to laugh with them.
Again it's a sliding scale, and my feeling is that the more inclusive you can be the better the long term chance of real progress.

One way, though, is to poke a little fun at the extremes of both sides within the same joke/sketch. This can get everyone laughing, while still getting the basic facts across.

Graham
Graham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 02:00 PM   #38
ardeegee
Maratus speciosus butt
ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
ardeegee's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,292
Karma: 1162698
Join Date: Sep 2009
Device: PRS-350
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
No, I didn't know that - that's very interesting!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...=&oq=&gs_rfai=
ardeegee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 02:00 PM   #39
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383099
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
Trouble is, GRB, that it's essentially an unwinnable debate. The atheists will say "where's the evidence?" and the believers will say "it's not a matter of evidence, but of faith", and neither side is going to convince the other of their case.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 02:02 PM   #40
Sparrow
Wizard
Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sparrow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,395
Karma: 1358132
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Given that I'm taking part in the debate myself, Graham, you may rest assured that I will make sure that I don't end up in the position of having to ban myself .
Have the transgressors in the other thread been PMed to advise them where they crossed the line?
Just looking for some reassurance it t'weren't me (I haven't received such a PM) .
Sparrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 02:05 PM   #41
GrimRedBones
Banned
GrimRedBones began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 12
Karma: 10
Join Date: Sep 2010
Device: sony prs 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Trouble is, GRB, that it's essentially an unwinnable debate. The atheists will say "where's the evidence?" and the believers will say "it's not a matter of evidence, but of faith", and neither side is going to convince the other of their case.
I was looking at that thread a bit ... (actually because it was really funny in parts) but it seems that the believers were talking about morality and its fount being the godhead. Of course the believers can't come up with the physical evidence... but the arguments pretty interesting.
GrimRedBones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 02:05 PM   #42
ardeegee
Maratus speciosus butt
ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ardeegee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
ardeegee's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,292
Karma: 1162698
Join Date: Sep 2009
Device: PRS-350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
Have the transgressors in the other thread been PMed to advise them where they crossed the line?
Just looking for some reassurance it t'weren't me (I haven't received such a PM) .
Unless you made close to 300 posts in that thread in a matter of a few hours, I think you're good.
ardeegee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 02:08 PM   #43
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383099
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
Have the transgressors in the other thread been PMed to advise them where they crossed the line?
Don't worry, it wasn't you.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 02:12 PM   #44
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383099
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimRedBones View Post
I was looking at that thread a bit ... (actually because it was really funny in parts) but it seems that the believers were talking about morality and its fount being the godhead. Of course the believers can't come up with the physical evidence... but the arguments pretty interesting.
The counter-argument being, of course, that one has systems of moral philosophy (and the one I'm most familiar with personally is that propounded by Plato) which are entirely divorced from religion. (That's why, almost uniquely among ancient philosophers, the works of Plato have come down to us complete; the early church fathers such as Augustine considered him to have been a "Christian who just happened to live before Christ", and preserved his teachings.)
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 02:28 PM   #45
GrimRedBones
Banned
GrimRedBones began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 12
Karma: 10
Join Date: Sep 2010
Device: sony prs 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
The counter-argument being, of course, that one has systems of moral philosophy (and the one I'm most familiar with personally is that propounded by Plato) which are entirely divorced from religion. (That's why, almost uniquely among ancient philosophers, the works of Plato have come down to us complete; the early church fathers such as Augustine considered him to have been a "Christian who just happened to live before Christ", and preserved his teachings.)
Doesn't plato have a supernatural system tacked on to the end of the Republic?
GrimRedBones is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:28 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.