Atheist zealots a heavy cross to bear

[Graham]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

No its the other way round. If you're an atheist you're not accountable. Because why hold yourself to account if theres no point. Who are you doing for.

You are doing it for yourself, your loved ones, your community, your society, and ultimately everyone. As we've shown a number of times in this thread, lack of belief in a deity does not prevent you having a firm moral code.

Graham

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Lo Zeno

My mommy did; I looked for it; I found that it didn't exist; my mother admitted, years later, that it was a lie.

What does mommy think about god? Remember mommy loves you.....

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Graham

You are doing it for yourself, your loved ones, your community, your society, and ultimately everyone. As we've shown a number of times in this thread, lack of belief in a deity does not prevent you having a firm moral code.

Graham

But sometimes we see that those who do it for themselves or loved ones justify occasionally breaking moral codes if they think it will suit the object of their blessing. See thats what Abraham and Isaac is demonstrating in a particularly harsh example.

[Lo Zeno]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

What does mommy think about god? Remember mommy loves you.....

Heh
if I say that she told me that God doesn't exist, you'll reply that she has lied me once with the story of the Easter Bunny.
if I say that she told me that God exists, you'll reply that I should believe what my mother says because she loves me.

Your comparation (culture = mother, god = easter bunny) is so good that I'll learn it by heart.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Fine.. Keep going. But whoever said God was a person or that he was invisible. Maybe the laws of physics don't get broken but they are rules that He operates within like a game...

OK, now we're getting somewhere. What is your idea of God? The universe itself?

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by HarryT

OK, now we're getting somewhere. What is your idea of God? The universe itself?

Thats hard to answer but suffice it to say that I don't see conflict between the disciplines of Physics, Evolutionary Theory and Religion. It all fits together somehow. But in my previous posts I've talked about how God may operate in the world. I think studying the Old Testament is good because it does provide those crucial and sometimes exasperating examples. You know when you play chess... sometimes you gotta make a sacrifice! However the New Testament is more valid and important for people as it focuses on the strategy thats most important for humanity.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

But sometimes we see that those who do it for themselves or loved ones justify occasionally breaking moral codes if they think it will suit the object of their blessing. See thats what Abraham and Isaac is demonstrating in a particularly harsh example.

Such justification would be self-deception and a failure to live up to the moral code, but the same argument could be applied to anyone who used a sacred text to justify an action thought immoral by others.

I could argue though, that through having to continually question his own moral code, an atheist might be less likely to do this.

Graham

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Graham

Such justification would be self-deception and a failure to live up the moral code, but the same argument could be applied to anyone who used a sacred text to justify an action thought immoral by others.

I could argue though, that through having to continually question his own moral code, an atheist might be less likely to do this.

Graham

I'm not so sure about that. Atheism is like building your city on a swamp... Basically you've got to continually resupport those skyscrapers, however your never gonna stop sinking. Atheism must require a lot of mental energy.. whereas us religious types got time to just sit back and enjoy the sun.

If you defined your moral code as existing in order to help yourself and maybe a few other people then breaking those morals wouldn't matter if its only going to affect those outside of your remit. Who cares about them. This is clan mentality.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Here I've got another name for you... how bout... Satanist! That seems to fit what you describe.

I don't mind being called a Satanist, but my Satanist friends tell me it's not accurate and that I'm just trolling for attention if I use the label. (And they get really annoyed when told that Satanism is a branch of Discordianism. Well, the LaVeyans do. The theistic ones tend to just roll their eyes.)

But certainly, you're free to think of me as a Satanist. I'm a lot more similar to the theistic Satanists than the LaVeyan atheist variety.

Side question: do you think Satanists shouldn't have the same legal rights to freedom to practice their religion as other religions do?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

I'm not so sure about that. Atheism is like building your city on a swamp... Basically you've got to continually resupport those skyscrapers, however your never gonna stop sinking. Atheism must require a lot of mental energy.. whereas us religious types got time to just sit back and enjoy the sun.

But where does your moral code come from? You said yourself that you don't believe the Bible is the word of God in our earliest discussion on slavery. We both agree that slavery is bad. My view comes from my personal ethical code; where does yours come from? You seem to be saying that if you're a religious person you don't actually need to think for yourself - that doesn't sound like a benefit of religion to me!

[Graham]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

I'm not so sure about that. Atheism is like building your city on a swamp... Basically you've got to continually resupport those skyscrapers, however your never gonna stop sinking. Atheism must require a lot of mental energy.. whereas us religious types got time to just sit back and enjoy the sun.

Following any moral code should require energy spent on consideration and reasoning. Sitting back and enjoying the sun may not necessarily result in right thought or action.

I'm not sure where your atheistic skyscrapers come from though. As we've stated before, atheism is a lack of belief. There is no superstructure to create in a lack of something.

Originally Posted by terrazoids

If you defined your moral code as existing in order to help yourself and maybe a few other people then breaking those morals wouldn't matter if its only going to affect those outside of your remit. Who cares about them. This is clan mentality.

No, you'll note I defined them above as existing to support ultimately everyone. This is global mentality.

Graham

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I don't mind being called a Satanist, but my Satanist friends tell me it's not accurate and that I'm just trolling for attention if I use the label. (And they get really annoyed when told that Satanism is a branch of Discordianism. Well, the LaVeyans do. The theistic ones tend to just roll their eyes.)

But certainly, you're free to think of me as a Satanist. I'm a lot more similar to the theistic Satanists than the LaVeyan atheist variety.

Side question: do you think Satanists shouldn't have the same legal rights to freedom to practice their religion as other religions do?

Your Satanist friends...? Thats shocking.. Just what do you think you're doing with your life? I don't think you and your friends quite get the picture about what Satan exactly is. Newsflash.. Satanism is not a religion. Anyway a real Satanist wouldn't talk like you.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Graham

Following any moral code should require energy spent on consideration and reasoning. Sitting back and enjoying the sun may not necessarily result in right thought or action.

I'm not sure where your atheistic skyscrapers come from though. As we've stated before, atheism is a lack of belief. There is no superstructure to create in a lack of something.



No, you'll note I defined them above as existing to support ultimately everyone. This is global mentality.

Graham

Oh sure theres a superstructure. its called your whole personality.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Your Satanist friends...? Thats shocking.. Just what do you think you're doing with your life?

Working, supporting family, raising kids, spending time with friends, blogging, reading ebooks... pretty much what my Satanist friends (and Wiccan friends, and agnostic friends, and even some Christian friends) are doing.

Well, except for the "reading ebooks" part. A lot of them are still caught up with the "smell of books" concept.

I don't think you and your friends quite get the picture about what Satan exactly is.

I'm sure my beliefs about who & what Satan is disagree with yours. Is there some reason I should trust your perceptions & judgment over my own?

Newsflash.. Satanism is not a religion. Anyway a real Satanist wouldn't talk like you.

What makes Satanism "not a religion?" What do you think is required to have a religion?

How much time have you spent with real Satanists? (And I didn't say I was a Satanist; you did. From the outside, my religion is probably closest to Wicca; the differences are probably not visible to people who haven't done any notable research.)

[Graham]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Oh sure theres a superstructure. its called your whole personality.

But that is the superstructure of my moral code, not the simple statement of atheism.

As noted above, I agree that the moral code requires energy to explore and maintain. I also agree that those who give their moral code thought expend more energy than those who don't.

Graham