Atheist zealots a heavy cross to bear

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by recluse

There have been several posts indicating that people of faith are defective, Donnageddon.
And worse.

I was born into a Southern Baptist part of the country, into a Southern Baptist family, and into a Southern Baptist church. By the time I was in the FIRST GRADE, I was noticing that the claims that believers were making didn't make a whole lot of sense.

I can excuse someone without sufficient access to knowledge of the world around them being strongly religious-- people in deeply poor third world countries and people centuries in the past. But in modern times? In the first world? Adults with access to more information than anyone else, anywhere else in human history? And NOT realizing what a crock of crap it all is? I'm sorry, but I do conciser willful ignorance and superstition to be a character flaw. Not a fatal one for most people, maybe (with freakazoid being one of the loud exceptions) but, yes, still a "defect" as you put it.

[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by weateallthepies

If the theists were content to simply believe that might work but many seek to affect society as a whole based on those beliefs. If I became a passive atheist overnight, there would still be unelected bishops sitting in my democratic government, religious groups would still seek to and succeed in opposing scientific research, political leaders would still justify their actions by invoking god. I'm not sure how it would help to simply ignore all these things.

I never suggested ignoring the things you mention. That is what the political process is for, to have your say in the running of your society. If you don't want any of the things you mention then vote accordingly at meetings and elections.

I guess I wasn't clear enough when mentioning the conflict between science and religion. I should have said the conflict amongst people on both sides who feel a need to convince the others they are correct. It is this conflict that could so easily be resovled.

As for conflict between the concepts of science and religion.........there isn't any, and can't be any. There can only be conflict between proponents of each.

Cheers,
PKFFW

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by PKFFW

I never suggested ignoring the things you mention. That is what the political process is for, to have your say in the running of your society. If you don't want any of the things you mention then vote accordingly at meetings and elections.

I guess I wasn't clear enough when mentioning the conflict between science and religion. I should have said the conflict amongst people on both sides who feel a need to convince the others they are correct. It is this conflict that could so easily be resovled.

As for conflict between the concepts of science and religion.........there isn't any, and can't be any. There can only be conflict between proponents of each.

Cheers,
PKFFW

I agree.

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

I'll stop when you stop... And then we'll just be left with Choice. Are you going to be an evil person Sweevo... or a good one?

I'm good, thanks. Which beliefs have I dishonestly misrepresented as facts?

Note: atheism is lack of belief.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

I was born into a Southern Baptist part of the country, into a Southern Baptist family, and into a Southern Baptist church. By the time I was in the FIRST GRADE, I was noticing that the claims that believers were making didn't make a whole lot of sense.

I can excuse someone without sufficient access to knowledge of the world around them being strongly religious-- people in deeply poor third world countries and people centuries in the past. But in modern times? In the first world? Adults with access to more information than anyone else, anywhere else in human history? And NOT realizing what a crock of crap it all is? I'm sorry, but I do conciser willful ignorance and superstition to be a character flaw. Not a fatal one for most people, maybe (with freakazoid being one of the loud exceptions) but, yes, still a "defect" as you put it.

Oh I guess you don't have any defects... My My, when you were only 5?.... I guess you're as perfect as Jesus was. Oh Lord I have sinned... now I'm being ironic. Well I guess you'll deign to excuse me since I don't have access to all the info you have.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by sweevo

I'm good, thanks. Which beliefs have I dishonestly misrepresented as facts?

Note: atheism is lack of belief.

Stick with Good.. Youll be ok

[kindlekitten]

IT HAS SERVED US WELL, THIS MYTH OF CHRIST!

Pope Leo X 1475-1521

this HAD been a gracious informative debate. but now that it has become the terrazoid show who has demonstrated that not only is s/he a zealot but a racist to boot, I must bow out. it is quite obvious that nothing said will cause him/her to seek out any further knowledge or information.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

IT HAS SERVED US WELL, THIS MYTH OF CHRIST!

Pope Leo X 1475-1521

this HAD been a gracious informative debate. but now that it has become the terrazoid show who has demonstrated that not only is s/he a zealot but a racist to boot, I must bow out. it is quite obvious that nothing said will cause him/her to seek out any further knowledge or information.

I'm always up for new knowledge and infromation kitten... especially from award winning internationally renowned folks.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Correct

At that truth is only from science - proven verifiable, repeatable evidence of the composition and operation of the universe around us.

anything else is mere speculation.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

IT HAS SERVED US WELL, THIS MYTH OF CHRIST!

Pope Leo X 1475-1521

this HAD been a gracious informative debate. but now that it has become the terrazoid show who has demonstrated that not only is s/he a zealot but a racist to boot, I must bow out. it is quite obvious that nothing said will cause him/her to seek out any further knowledge or information.

You know... this isn't my show, I'm just the one being attacked and insulted and denigrated all the time by the award winners on this thread. So far you've just told me to go and read the epic of Gilgamesh, as if thats going to somehow educate me to your standard. Then you've spent the rest of the time talking about how famous and smart you are with the intent that I should trust your word. Apart from that I haven't actually seen that you've got the guts to talk about... What you believe... and... Why you believe it.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by kennyc

At that truth is only from science - proven verifiable, repeatable evidence of the composition and operation of the universe around us.

anything else is mere speculation.

Incorrect.

[terrazoids]

I think I've proved very well the original thesis of this thread.

[weateallthepies]

Originally Posted by PKFFW

I never suggested ignoring the things you mention. That is what the political process is for, to have your say in the running of your society. If you don't want any of the things you mention then vote accordingly at meetings and elections.

I guess I wasn't clear enough when mentioning the conflict between science and religion. I should have said the conflict amongst people on both sides who feel a need to convince the others they are correct. It is this conflict that could so easily be resovled.

As for conflict between the concepts of science and religion.........there isn't any, and can't be any. There can only be conflict between proponents of each.

Cheers,
PKFFW

Sadly there doesn't appear to be any process by which I can vote against the unelected bishops sitting in the House of Lords. Indeed there is not much I can do about the House of Lords unless there is some sort of reform.

Whilst I understand more clearly your point now, I'm just not sure you can separate what people believe and how they act on those beliefs so easily. Sure we could stop discussing it but the conflict just moves to the point where actions driven by beliefs affect others.

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I had a Christian upbringing and attended a Christian school, but I never had any faith in the religion - it's never meant anything to me.
I've a limited knowledge of Bhuddhism, but I've found it infinitely more profound, wise and compassionate than anything I've experienced in a Christian context (and that would include this thread ).
Bhuddhist teaching enriches what Christianity diminshes imho.

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Its great you had a good upbringing. By all means... explore Buddhism...

You are misrepresenting what Sparrow said - a Christian upbringing does not neccessarily equal a good one. Nor does going to a Christian school. Note, I'm not saying that a Christian upbringing would be a bad one, either; just that the phrase "I had a Christian upbringing" gives you no indication as to the quality of their upbringing.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

You are misrepresenting what Sparrow said - a Christian upbringing does not neccessarily equal a good one. Nor does going to a Christian school. Note, I'm not saying that a Christian upbringing would be a bad one, either; just that the phrase "I had a Christian upbringing" gives you no indication as to the quality of their upbringing.

I'm making a judgement.. I think kids should all have a good upbringing..