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Old 09-21-2010, 12:30 PM   #151
Shaggy
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
But the purpose of a doorlock is not to defeat the professional criminal; it's there to tell the honest person "you're not supposed to go through this door".
Except in this case, it only takes one "professional" to defeat the doorlock, and then your house is wide open to anybody else who comes along. There is no longer even a reminder, whether they're honest or not, because the lock is gone.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:37 PM   #152
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What is the industry's opinion, do you think?
Given their efforts to keep coming up with newer/better/stronger DRM methods, I'd say they're looking for a solution that prevents piracy, not just a deterrent for otherwise honest consumers. If they were only interested in the latter, they wouldn't need to keep revising the DRM.

Personally, I think that DRM has never really been about piracy. I still think it's a goal of theirs to prevent piracy, and the excuse they use to get the public to accept it, but that's not the main reason they use it.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:25 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by DMcCunney View Post
Should what you postulate happen, I agree it's a problem. But how likely is it to happen? How big a problem is it?

Reader manufacturers are in competition with each other. There is continual pressure to create new, improved models. Amazon has produced the Kindle 1, 2, DX and 3. Sony has unleashed a number of models, starting with the PRS-500, and going on from there. I expect new and improved nooks in the not that distant future. And that's just the big 3. There are a number of other vendors with their hat in the ring.

I really don't expect the vast majority of Kindle owners to suddenly decide that they want a Sony Reader. Why should they? They have good pricing and unparalleled selection at Amazon, and the Kindle app is available for other platforms like smartphones, if they decide they'd like to read, but not drag their Kindle along with them. I can't imagine what Sony would come up with that would be so compelling they'd be tempted to switch. Similar considerations apply to the other vendors.

Frankly, I see this as a non-issue. I know you loathe Amazon, and feel a need to justify your choice of reader, but personally, I'd find other justifications that are more readily defensible.
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This isn't about the Kindle vs the rest of the world. This is a DRM issue. I can easily see people getting bitten by DRM because they like the K3 and want one and have/had one that used ADE. Or the other way round. I was using Sony and Kindle as an example of non-interoperable DRM and what could happen if a switch was made.

An even better example could be Apple and iBooks. If you have an iPhone and use iBooks and have bought some eBooks via iBooks and then decided you wanted a reader and got one because it also supported ePub, you'd find out the ePub from Apple is not compatible thanks to the DRM. So really, all this format lock in is mostly due to DRM.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:31 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
That may be your opinion on it's purpose, but that doesn't seem to be the industries opinion.
DRM is never going to prevent copying. But breaking it introduces an extra, deliberate, step. People cannot just give a copy to a friend, without being clearly aware that this is not permitted. I think that would deter a substantial proportion of people, who don't want to think of themselves as crooks.
It will never prevent 'serious' pirates, it will deter 'casual' ones.

Last edited by murraypaul; 09-21-2010 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:33 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
This isn't about the Kindle vs the rest of the world. This is a DRM issue. I can easily see people getting bitten by DRM because they like the K3 and want one and have/had one that used ADE. Or the other way round. I was using Sony and Kindle as an example of non-interoperable DRM and what could happen if a switch was made.

An even better example could be Apple and iBooks. If you have an iPhone and use iBooks and have bought some eBooks via iBooks and then decided you wanted a reader and got one because it also supported ePub, you'd find out the ePub from Apple is not compatible thanks to the DRM. So really, all this format lock in is mostly due to DRM.
Here - this is the big thing.

Right now you can buy ePubs with three different DRM wrappers and no one device can read them all.

Doesn't it sound stupid that you have to buy the same book multiple times in the same format to read it on all your portable devices - even when all the the DRM schemes theoretically allow you to read it on multiple devices - but practically don't because the DRM says:

"Yes, you can read it on more than one device: but not that one."
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:37 PM   #156
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good idea

I, too, believe in DRM-free books. I accidentally uploaded my first The Red Church with DRM enabled before I realized it was "default." I don't want to have to take down the page and lose all reviews, tages, ect but all esle is DRM-free and I am happy to replace that copy with a professionally formatted DRM-free file (I sell all DRM-free files at my web site).

I hope more authors will take the stand of respecting their readers instead of fearing them!

Scott

Last edited by Scott Nicholson; 09-21-2010 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:40 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Doranna Durgin View Post
The Webscriptions books reverted years ago. 8) I'm in the process of putting those on Kindle and Smashwords, like many of the authors on Backlist Ebooks (where the resource options for my books are also listed). Slow going, because I'm putting so much time into...Backlist Ebooks! (shock!) Right now there are a smattering of short stories (some from the Chicks in Chainmail series, which probably are on Webscriptions also) and the fantasy A Feral Darkness, plus the action-adventure/romance hybrid Hidden Steel. I'll have them all up eventually--mysteries, fantasies, and a couple of romances.

Anything from more recent years--the various tie-ins (Angel, Trek, E:FC, Ghost Whisperer) and the paranormals are all available via their publishers.

Anyway, as of today I have siggie privileges, so I've got a link to my backlist ebooks page there. 8)

(And thank you for asking!)
When you do put your eBooks up on Smashwords, one thing I highly recommend is to download them from there to check the formatting. I've seen some eBooks there come out quite a bit screwy due to their automated conversion system. Smashwords would be so much better if they allowed you to directly upload in the various formats and only convert what you don't put up.

Anyway, I am interested in the Changespell Saga books for now and those are the ones I was looking for.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:45 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
Here - this is the big thing.

Right now you can buy ePubs with three different DRM wrappers and no one device can read them all.

Doesn't it sound stupid that you have to buy the same book multiple times in the same format to read it on all your portable devices - even when all the the DRM schemes theoretically allow you to read it on multiple devices - but practically don't because the DRM says:

"Yes, you can read it on more than one device: but not that one."
The iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch actually do allow you to handle all three different DRM. iBooks for fairplay, txtr for Adept, and nook for B&N's DRM. The only thing you cannot do on an iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch is borrow library ePub as the txtr app doesn't support time limted DRM and Overdrive seems to have forgotten that they said they were writing an eBook app.

But I can easily see people say it's ePub so it will work until they try it and it doesn't work.
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:41 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
DRM is never going to prevent copying. But breaking it introduces an extra, deliberate, step. People cannot just give a copy to a friend, without being clearly aware that this is not permitted. I think that would deter a substantial proportion of people, who don't want to think of themselves as crooks.
It will never prevent 'serious' pirates, it will deter 'casual' ones.
Casual users don't break/bypass the DRM themselves. The 'serious' pirate has already done that for them. DRM can't deter anything if it's already been removed.
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:25 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
Casual users don't break/bypass the DRM themselves. The 'serious' pirate has already done that for them. DRM can't deter anything if it's already been removed.
Most casual users probably don't frequent the pirate sites, either. I think DRM is a deterrent to casual sharing. One of the things I had to consider was, am I okay with casual sharing. I decided I was, because it seems like a good way to gain new readers, even if they aren't immediately paying readers.

Certainly I have both given and received tapes and CDs with music that someone wanted to share with me, or vice-versa. I have gone on to buy music from artists whose work I have discovered that way. Same principle.
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:43 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by starrigger View Post
Most casual users probably don't frequent the pirate sites, either.
Then is using DRM to deter them from piracy really accomplishing anything?

For that type of user, frustration over the additional restrictions that DRM brings is probably more likely to drive them towards piracy than keep them away from something they weren't going to do in the first place.
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Old 09-21-2010, 04:18 PM   #162
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I'd suggest all writers and puplishers who have already shown here that they care to transport this message to others who already care, nag and fight at the roots of this nuissance. Joining forces and supporting each other.

IMHO a brief official mail to http://www.defectivebydesign.org/

would certainly not be wrong since they are perfectly aware, that ebooks are infected by the problem too as many other things are

interest in ebooks proven here: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/carina-drm-free
together with this beautiful list to which they link: http://blog.threepress.org/2009/11/1...ee-publishers/ and which I admit to see the first time...
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:41 PM   #163
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All of my books are DRM-free. I believe you should be able to read a book that you've purchased on any and all devices you own. I also don't mind if you share with your family and close friends...the same as you would a paperback. That just gives me a chance to gain one more fan :-)

Sandy
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:22 PM   #164
Doranna Durgin
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
When you do put your eBooks up on Smashwords, one thing I highly recommend is to download them from there to check the formatting. I've seen some eBooks there come out quite a bit screwy due to their automated conversion system. Smashwords would be so much better if they allowed you to directly upload in the various formats and only convert what you don't put up.

Anyway, I am interested in the Changespell Saga books for now and those are the ones I was looking for.
Thanks, Jon--I've checked the formatting of the existing books as I can (without a reader), and done a whole lot of experimenting to get the best possible results. I do hope some of that is coming through!

The first of the Changespell Saga is being held hostage by the publisher who most recently put it out, but the other two are on my list to release in e-format, and I'm still working at getting the first back. 8)
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:12 PM   #165
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In my view, the whole 'end goal' of DRM is to charge per-view-per-eyeball, certainly that's the dream of the people steering the show right now.
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