Atheist zealots a heavy cross to bear

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

I'm always struck how the replies from those who consider themselves athiests are always full of malice and irony.

You come into this thread and in your first post you say that everyone who doesn't accept your god will be tortured for all of time. And you say this.

Malice.

Irony.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Ah, but if genocide and all the other crimes explicitly ordered by God as per the OT suddenly were no longer okay after Jesus, then that means God's morals aren't absolute, and are subject to change. Which reduces them all to a matter of "might makes right."

The higher one's moral standards, the less of the bible one is able to take seriously and must be hand-waved away.

Well give it a little slap then, with your white leather glove.. Justify your ideas to yourself and others. Live your life according to your decided morals, and then be judged at the end. I think the story of Melancthon that I posted earlier applies.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

You come into this thread and in your first post you say that everyone who doesn't accept your god will be tortured for all of time. And you say this.

Malice.

Irony.

I just stated a fact. Sorry...

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Well give it a little slap then, with your white leather glove.. Justify your ideas to yourself and others. Live your life according to your decided morals, and then be judged at the end.

Preemptive Pascal's Wager Attack!

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

I just stated a fact. Sorry...

Pretending your beliefs are facts is dishonest. You are acting immorally.

You still haven't answered the question: is it moral to punish people for the actions of others?

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Many of those stories illustrate the brutal nature of causes and their effects. The point of the biblical histories is to come to an understanding of morality.

Well, yes... {brutal cause} YHVH ordered the Israelites to slaughter the Hittites and Moabites, and {brutal effect} Hittites and Moabites died by the thousands.

Justify yourself and what you believe. Why stick one's head in the sand? Justify yourself, and don't use supposed encyclopedia reference articles or clever internet links as ornaments that you hang on your soul.

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking for here.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

While I'm more than willing to get into a theological debate about YHVH's supposed personality traits, I'm not sure you have a similar interest. (That's your opportunity to nod out gracefully and say "nah, I was just throwing in a few comments; wasn't actually looking for a real debate at this time.")

My perspective on "the last judgment," when I don't think of it as an exercise in speculative fiction, is that it's the sign of an oversized temper-tantrum: a creator is unhappy with the results of his own work, so he destroys it rather than fixing it, causing a great deal of pain to everyone involved.

That is, if one accepts the triple-omni situation as background. If he's not omnipotent, it doesn't apply. Of course, if he's not omnipotent, several of the other arguments fall apart.

Who are you to try and understand the last judgement or God's divine plan? Heres a revelation. He is omnipotent. You can count on it. And whoever said he was going to destroy creation? Its not so negative as you make it out.

[sweevo]

So, is it moral to punish people for the actions of others?

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by sweevo

Pretending your beliefs are facts is dishonest. You are acting immorally.

You still haven't answered the question: is it moral to punish people for the actions of others?

Hold on, hold on... I'm answering thousands of posts at once here. I didn't think this would stir up such a storm of indignation.

In reply to your question with the words you used, I would say, "No"

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Who are you to try and understand the last judgement or God's divine plan? Heres a revelation. He is omnipotent. You can count on it. And whoever said he was going to destroy creation? Its not so negative as you make it out.

Who are you to tell me what a deity is or isn't? If he's omnipotent, can't he tell me himself, in a way that's convincing? Why should I believe your interpretation over my own?

[darknessangel]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Who are you to try and understand the last judgement or God's divine plan? Heres a revelation. He is omnipotent. You can count on it. And whoever said he was going to destroy creation? Its not so negative as you make it out.

That's you and your invisible man. I'm also not trying to understand the last movies of science fiction (emphasis on "fiction"). And if there is a God... your concept of understading "IT" and confining "IT" to a book is pretty laughable. And even more your judging of other people by your "understanding".

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

In reply to your question with the words you used, I would say, "No"

And yet, the god you happen to believe in does that many times in your book. You know the book I'm talking about - it's the one with the talking donkey.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Preemptive Pascal's Wager Attack!

I get the feeling you're more interested in fighting than thinking and sharing.

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

I get the feeling you're more interested in fighting than thinking and sharing.

Ad hominem.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Who are you to tell me what a deity is or isn't? If he's omnipotent, can't he tell me himself, in a way that's convincing? Why should I believe your interpretation over my own?

He told you already, I shouldn't need to.