If only I lived in the US.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You really should be grateful that you live in the UK. The majority of e-books are significantly cheaper for us in the UK than they are for people in the US, since we don't have the "agency agreement" that permits publishers to fix the prices in the US.

Take advantage of the lower prices while you can. There are already ongoing discussions with retailers and publishers regarding agency pricing for UK. One source says it's imminent.

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/12...on+the+Web%29#

Amazon's low prices have brought itself unfavorable attention.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Take advantage of the lower prices while you can. There are already ongoing discussions with retailers and publishers regarding agency pricing for UK. One source says it's imminent.

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/12...on+the+Web%29#

Amazon's low prices have brought itself unfavorable attention.

I'm not going to worry about it too much. I'm pretty sure that "agency" pricing would be illegal under the UK's competition laws, just as the Net Book Agreement (the former industry cartel which fixed book prices) was ruled to be illegal some years ago. British consumer law looks very unfavourably upon any form of price fixing.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm not going to worry about it too much. I'm pretty sure that "agency" pricing would be illegal under the UK's competition laws.

It should be illegal here too, but once more the corporations have gotten what they want.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kennyc

It should be illegal here to, but once more the corporations have gotten what they want.

The point is, though, Kenny, that there's a precedent for this under UK law. Book prices in the UK used to be fixed under a system called the "Net Book Agreement", which meant that nobody was allowed to sell books in the UK for less than their cover price. This was ruled to be illegal in the 1990s. Agency pricing is really just a reincarnation of the NBA for eBooks and I have no doubt that it would be found to be equally illegal.

[kennyc]

No, the point is, it should be illegal here as well.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The point is, though, Kenny, that there's a precedent for this under UK law. Book prices in the UK used to be fixed under a system called the "Net Book Agreement", which meant that nobody was allowed to sell books in the UK for less than their cover price. This was ruled to be illegal in the 1990s. Agency pricing is really just a reincarnation of the NBA for eBooks and I have no doubt that it would be found to be equally illegal.

Are UK retailers permitted to sell merchandise below wholesale costs? According to the article this is what Amazon is doing. They are losing money on the sale of certain items.

This is not legal in the US. Anti-competitive.

Reposted here so this thread can fade:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99009

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Are UK retailers permitted to sell merchandise below wholesale costs? According to the article this is what Amazon is doing. They are losing money on the sale of certain items.

This is not legal in the US. Anti-competitive.

Certainly. Supermarkets do it all the time - have some ludicrously cheap offer on some item or other to get people in through the doors who will, while they are there, buy lots of other things too. Or so the theory goes, and I suppose it must work or they wouldn't do it.

It's pretty well-known that Sony sell the Playstation 3 for less than it cost to make it, because they actually make their profit on the games.

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Certainly. Supermarkets do it all the time - have some ludicrously cheap offer on some item or other to get people in through the doors who will, while they are there, buy lots of other things too. Or so the theory goes, and I suppose it must work or they wouldn't do it.

It's pretty well-known that Sony sell the Playstation 3 for less than it cost to make it, because they actually make their profit on the games.

Although any limited company running at a loss will be wound up.

I know this because the company I work for has to be very careful every year not to make a net loss, even though it would, in the larger picture, be better for us to do so.

[HarryT]

Well, yes, certainly you can't sell everything at a loss, but I don't think that anyone's suggesting that Amazon are doing so, are they? I seem to recall that Amazon make enormous profits.

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Well, yes, certainly you can't sell everything at a loss, but I don't think that anyone's suggesting that Amazon are doing so, are they? I seem to recall that Amazon make enormous profits.

Indeed - no contradiction intended on my part.

[nomesque]

Authors seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place, at times. From what I can work out, the author can choose to sell worldwide rights to a publisher - who may then onsell partial rights to someone else, depending on where their current markets are.

That said, geographic restrictions are great for the indie writers. I don't think I'd have as many readers if it weren't for restrictions on the big authors.

[kiwipippa]

Add my name to the list of extremely frustrated ebook buyers. I'm in New Zealand, which used to be the ends of the earth - the invention of the jet changed that - we're a quick flight away. But ebook sellers and publishers have successfully put us back 100 years.

Thanks guys - I'll go back to buying paperbacks and getting my favourite UK site to send them to me free of charge instead of letting me save THEM money by agreeing to sell me the ebook. It is just the most bizarre situation. Surely they must realise this costs them money, but they obviously don't care. I am ready to throw my ereader in the bin, I have wasted almost the entire weekend trying to buy books I want and finding I no longer can. But I love my ereader and I WANT to give people money, please publishers and booksellers - let me buy your books!

[geertm]

Originally Posted by kiwipippa

Add my name to the list of extremely frustrated ebook buyers. I'm in New Zealand, which used to be the ends of the earth - the invention of the jet changed that - we're a quick flight away. But ebook sellers and publishers have successfully put us back 100 years.

Thanks guys - I'll go back to buying paperbacks and getting my favourite UK site to send them to me free of charge instead of letting me save THEM money by agreeing to sell me the ebook. It is just the most bizarre situation. Surely they must realise this costs them money, but they obviously don't care. I am ready to throw my ereader in the bin, I have wasted almost the entire weekend trying to buy books I want and finding I no longer can. But I love my ereader and I WANT to give people money, please publishers and booksellers - let me buy your books!

See my post #6 in this thread for geo-restrictions workarounds:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98790

[kiwipippa]

Thanks geertm, I did read your post. I want to be honest but they make it difficult....

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Psykhe

Charels Stross (a pretty good sci-fi author who won the Hugo award this year) actually does not recommend this (pretty good read about the ebook mechanics and book production costs btw).

From that:
"[...] allowing Amazon to pick a price point, sell at that price point, and only pay the publisher a percentage royalty, rather than a fixed discount off a (publisher-set) SRP.

Amazon got what they wanted at first, because they were the biggest ebook vendor; if you're the only game in town you can play hardball. Apple broke this perception earlier this year when they proposed an alternative model: neither wholesaler nor publisher, but agent, taking a commission on whatever the publishers sold their books for."

If this is an accurate description of the pre-Agency 5 situation, I'm not surprised they did their deal with Apple, and I think they were perfectly correct to do so.
The ideal that you would hand your product over to someone else, who would have complete authority to set the price and pay you a percentage, is ridiculous.
I don't agree with the Apple and Amazon special cases, where they are guaranteed the lowest prices, in an ideal world publishers should set a 'wholesale' price to the bookstores, who can then charge whatever they like at retail.