The only kind of piracy I cared enough about to write...

[Fat Abe]

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

Digitized books are so different than any other medium (movies, etc) because the rest are so "disposable" they are like jokes; once told, the retelling rarely carries the same impact.

I would hardly say that movies are a form of disposable art, whatever medium they are captured on. The Godfather bears repeat watching. The same applies to Woman in the Dunes, The Thirty Nine Steps, My Man Godfrey, etc. Thus, I could easily name 1001 movies you should watch before you die, and which you would probably not mind watching twice if you were to live long enough.

Others have compiled lists of 1001 books of significance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1001_Bo...Before_You_Die

Now, the challenge in life is finding the time to acquire the movies or books in these lists. I'd say that the former category (movies) is more difficult to do than the latter (books), whether or not one resorts to the Darknet. Even though it is easier to find ebooks, servers going down and torrents disappearing does not always make it so. As a collector, I would rather pursue legal channels of obtaining books. This invariably points to used pbooks. To me, rare ebooks are too elusive, and a waste of my search time.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by clockworkzombie

I was planning to scan a few of my favourite books that are not in print, then I realised I would have to keep all my originals anyway for proof of ownership, though as the books would likely have the spine removed for scanning I could keep a folder with the covers in it.

On a scale of 1 to 100, rate the likelihood that some day some authority will show up at your house and demand that you show paper copies for all the scanned books that you own.

[crich70]

I agree that books are easier to get hold of in bulk via the net, legal or no as opposed to movies. A movie (legal download or not) is likely to be from several 100 to over a GB in size for just one file, where as you can aquire thousands of books in the same amount of space. Project Gutenberg for example has a legal torrent file that is around 4 GB in size and has some 20,000 books (not all in english) and some limited other media. There is also the fact that some authors works are out of print and in some cases the authors themselves are deceased so a search on the web might turn up titles that a potential reader has never heard of before. In a way sometimes a text file, pdf (or whatever format such a book is in online) might be the only way a person can find or learn of an author and his/her works. I'm not saying that piracy of a new book is right, just that for forgotten/obscure authors and their books it can lead to new interest in a given title. I'd love for some publisher to release ebook versions of the old Ellery Queen mystery novels for example. I have some in hard copy, but I know there are probably a lot more that I've never had the chance to read and that they are likely out of print.

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

This leaves us with books. Books are interesting because for the a cost of a download of a single movie you can download almost a whole library of ebooks. It doesn't end there: say there is a series of books that you would love to read (or perhaps re-read if they are from your childhood); however these books are not deemed profitable therefore are not kept in any form by any reseller so they are by and large, unavailable at any price. You would need to be at the right place at the right time to find these gems and if not all are available at the same place/time, it would take years of search if they are ever all available at any price. Yet for the cost of a single search and download of a few hundred megabytes, Bobs your uncle and off you go to a corner by the fire to read something not available in dead-tree form at any price.It is right? No. Is it totally wrong? Not in my opinion; if an author/publisher who makes books for the sole purpose of them being read, no longer makes them available to anyone anywhere this is more like lending. Making the waters muddier yet is if you are like us, avid scifi and fantasy book readers and over a lifetime of living have bought and rebought many if not all of these volumes and lost them due to moves, divorces, etc and you come across something that you used to own, want to read again and could not give money to anyone to get an ebook version if you wanted to...

[ski_power]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Sure. It is called "google." Pick your favorite authors. Google to see if their e-mail address is public. If not, google to find their agent or publicist and see if their e-mail address is public. Paypal them the cash or ask for somewhere to mail a check.

You know what. Seriously this never struck me. I'm not being sarcastic. I think I will employ this idea for books that I "want but can't buy" kind of scenario. Atleast it'll free me from the guilt of robbing an author his money (which I would have gladly paid if I could).

[queentess]

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

Just out of curiosity, what search terms did you use? Mine "piracy, etc" produced a lot of noise with few tangible results. I am honestly curious so I don't make this mistake again. The the fact that I wrote so much to explain the question (while still apparently failing) should speak to how earnest I am at gaining understanding on this...

My search terms were "piracy" and "darknet", with a little bit of knowledge of the threads from browsing the boards

If you search for those terms and tell it to return THREADS (not posts), then look at the ones with a high number of page counts (the discussions about piracy usually go on for ages)

[jeffcobb]

Originally Posted by Fat Abe

I would hardly say that movies are a form of disposable art, whatever medium they are captured on. The Godfather bears repeat watching. The same applies to Woman in the Dunes, The Thirty Nine Steps, My Man Godfrey, etc. Thus, I could easily name 1001 movies you should watch before you die, and which you would probably not mind watching twice if you were to live long enough.

Others have compiled lists of 1001 books of significance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1001_Bo...Before_You_Die

Now, the challenge in life is finding the time to acquire the movies or books in these lists. I'd say that the former category (movies) is more difficult to do than the latter (books), whether or not one resorts to the Darknet. Even though it is easier to find ebooks, servers going down and torrents disappearing does not always make it so. As a collector, I would rather pursue legal channels of obtaining books. This invariably points to used pbooks. To me, rare ebooks are too elusive, and a waste of my search time.

Everyone has their own tastes; in my opinion there are many more forgettable movies than memorable ones. That isn't to say the latter does not exist; I would posit there are many more memorable books worth re-reading than films worthy of a first glance let alone second one. For every Godfather I could point out literally anything with Adam Sandler or Julia Roberts in them; airplane ride fodder at best, only useful for drowning out screaming babies.

By the same token I could point out several Isaac Asimov stories that I have enjoyed many times over. This doesn't even begin to take into account books that started out as fantastic stories and became drivel once up on the silver screen..

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

On a scale of 1 to 100, rate the likelihood that some day some authority will show up at your house and demand that you show paper copies for all the scanned books that you own.

I would put it at -100. I had thought about keeping books covers and CD covers to prove ownership of my scanned books and CDs but, since most of the reason for digitizing them was to conserve space, I decided not to bother.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

BTW and just to be clear: When posters refer to "darknet" (a new term for me) you are referring to parts of the net to get illegal stuff, corrrect? IOW you are not referring to a specific network or somthing...

"Darknet" had nothing originally to do with legality; it was based on findability/searchability. The "darknet" is the stuff that's not publicly viewable. It includes email archives that require registration, closed-membership forums, and torrent networks.

Because these sites aren't easily findable, they're where the illegal file exchanges happen. They're also where a lot of legal but possibly "immoral" content is exchanged; a lot of porn is on the darknet. (Or darknets, 'cos they're not all related.) Also, with the term growing to mean "any file-sharing network," a lot of indie bands & some legit movie releases are there.

One form of darknet is "snearkernet"--files transferred by physically moving the storage medium from one person to another. This used to be "I'll burn a disc for you" and has expanded to "Got a flash drive? I'll bring you the files tomorrow."

[clockworkzombie]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

On a scale of 1 to 100, rate the likelihood that some day some authority will show up at your house and demand that you show paper copies for all the scanned books that you own.

I would not think it too likely being raided by the copyright police, for me it is a moral issue, doing the right thing.

[jeffcobb]

Originally Posted by clockworkzombie

I would not think it too likely being raided by the copyright police, for me it is a moral issue, doing the right thing.

Me too actually. For some reason I respect the work of authors moreso than Hollywood types. I lived near LA for over a decade and it just seemed like if you cannot come up with something new, copy something that works. Authors on the other hand (the better ones) to a larger or smaller extent suffer the same problems as smaller music-makers; the top 5% tend to stay on top with absolute rubbish and those working the bars, making really good original music that cannot get airplay. So I see this kind of distribution as a way around the "bigs", a way to gain exposure to and as a result support the "little guy" (or gal as it were). I rarely buy music through Amazon or other large distributer but love it when I hear someone new in a pub and can buy their entire CD line (or however much they have with them). If an author is dead, this presents a problem of course but I am not about helping the dead ones, I want to help encourage the good ones still alive to write more because lets face it: if they can sell me an ebook or six, that is pure profit for them (cutting out the middle man). I know many will jump up and argue with me but thats how I feel; Joe Snuffy, scifi author needs my money far more than Isaac Asimovs relatives.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by clockworkzombie

I would not think it too likely being raided by the copyright police, for me it is a moral issue, doing the right thing.

It's not even a moral issue for me since I legally own the books, media shifting is legal where I live and I'm not circumventing DRM to do so. On the flip side of the coin, the law would have to prove I didn't acquire my CDs and books legally.

[queentess]

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

Everyone has their own tastes; in my opinion there are many more forgettable movies than memorable ones.

Ditto for books. The good stuff is rare, no matter the medium.

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

That isn't to say the latter does not exist; I would posit there are many more memorable books worth re-reading than films worthy of a first glance let alone second one. For every Godfather I could point out literally anything with Adam Sandler or Julia Roberts in them; airplane ride fodder at best, only useful for drowning out screaming babies.

Sometimes I read just for enjoyment, not for some sort of enlightenment. I also sometimes watch movies just for the enjoyment. It doesn't have to the The Godfather to be enjoyable or viewable multiple times. Not to mention it's a much lesser time commitment to watch a 2 hour movie than reread my favorite 12-book 1,000-page-each fantasy series.

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

By the same token I could point out several Isaac Asimov stories that I have enjoyed many times over. This doesn't even begin to take into account books that started out as fantastic stories and became drivel once up on the silver screen..

Asimov? I enjoy his writing, but The King of Space Opera probably isn't your best defense here.

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

For some reason I respect the work of authors moreso than Hollywood types.

?? So it's ok to pirate movies but not ok to pirate books?

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

I lived near LA for over a decade and it just seemed like if you cannot come up with something new, copy something that works.

The exact same thing happens in the publishing world. For instance, the recent rash of vampire stories spawned by the popular Twilight series. Or the flood of wizarding stories after Harry Potter became popular. Or the deluge of Brownesque 'controversial' religious fiction.

[jeffcobb]

Originally Posted by queentess

Ditto for books. The good stuff is rare, no matter the medium.


Sometimes I read just for enjoyment, not for some sort of enlightenment. I also sometimes watch movies just for the enjoyment. It doesn't have to the The Godfather to be enjoyable or viewable multiple times. Not to mention it's a much lesser time commitment to watch a 2 hour movie than reread my favorite 12-book 1,000-page-each fantasy series.


Asimov? I enjoy his writing, but The King of Space Opera probably isn't your best defense here.

Yeah I would put the work of Arthur C Clarke and Isaac Asimov above that of George Lucas and James Cameron, yes. More of their fantasies about future events have come true than many others. Beyond that I consider 5-15 hours of enjoyable story for a quarter of the cost of a DVD a value.

?? So it's ok to pirate movies but not ok to pirate books?

Now you are making an inference that I did not present; great way to start an argument; bad way to make a point. I simply said I respect the works of authors over those of the typical Hollywood type. To make it clearer for the slow folk, I could care less about movie or music piracy (since I have nothing to do with it) as they have the means and obvious will to protect themselves. I do not see book authors afforded the same protection and so was asking if there was some avenue for them to get recompense when something of theirs gets pirated. So I prefer to support authors than all of the big music and movie houses combined. Shoot me. I stand by my convictions.

The exact same thing happens in the publishing world. For instance, the recent rash of vampire stories spawned by the popular Twilight series. Or the flood of wizarding stories after Harry Potter became popular. Or the deluge of Brownesque 'controversial' religious fiction.

Not that I read any of that; the last good vampire story was penned by Bram Stoker and the last decent one by Anne Rice. As for religious fiction, I had 8 years of that in parochial school

[clockworkzombie]

Originally Posted by queentess

Asimov? I enjoy his writing, but The King of Space Opera probably isn't your best defense here.

You take that back. EVERYONE knows E.E. Smith is the king of space opera.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

Yeah I would put the work of Arthur C Clarke and Isaac Asimov above that of George Lucas and James Cameron, yes.

Apples and oranges. It is a necessary limitation of the medium that you must have a less complex story in a movie than in a novel. Let's see Clarke or Asimov direct a scene or supervise an FX shot and see who comes off as better at that craft.