Very disappointed with the way the tech is developing.

[MovieBird]

Originally Posted by harryE123

other than shear prejudice I wonder why no one would want to be part of the premier ecosystem of apps, media, and syncing in itunes...

iTunes doesn't come in a Linux variant. Nor is iTunes the premier ecosystem in my eyes when they use Apple specific formats.

Originally Posted by harryE123

What would you need to do with usb on the ipad? Connect a wired keyboard? What peripheral that is so crucial cant's connect via bluetooth or wifi. Some Palaeolithic conceptions of tec are really stupefying?

Oh, I don't know, maybe upload some photos that your family member wants to give you? Transfer some non AAC (like, say, FLAC) music files? Upload pdf technical manuals you need to read for work, and which come from work and not iTunes? As much as Apple wants to be the center of the universe, there are just too many needs for media outside of iTunes. And please, it's been pointed out already, use the more standard "tech".

Originally Posted by harryE123

but neither is the ipads, apple's or ipad user's fault that they have started moving along with the times.

Yes it is! USB is the primary method of transport of digital stuff these days. It's all well and good to say we won't need USB in the future, but the future is not today. Where's my flying car to get me over the congested highways? What would have happened if they had stopped funding highways in the '70s because jetpacks were just around the corner?

Originally Posted by harryE123

Essentially what I am saying is that apple has always being the first ones to ditch old tech and jump on new, and better ones, they did this by ditching the floppies, they did this by implementing firewire first, they did this by implementing usb first (courtesy of intel of course).

Please quote your source that Apple was the first to offer a USB slot. The closest I could come is that they were the first to offer USB only, while PCs still offered legacy slots next to USBs. As far as abandoning floppies first, I don't see that as a good thing. Up until the past few years you could not flash the BIOS on your motherboard from anything other than a floppy. Firewire, I don't care about since relatively few peripherals use it, and not to any speed advantage over USB. My experience has been that read/write actions are the limiting factor, not transfer speed.

Originally Posted by harryE123

Now they very appropriately did away with the usb slot on slim tablets, it doesn't even fit properly. But to complain that this is unthinkable when there are so many workarounds.... Even if you can't get people to email you files, you can still (easily) jailbreak the ipad and have a usb slot with the miniscule camera kit you pop in, or you could use any of the wifi+usb+sd card readers on the side and transfer everything to the ipad that way.

Micro USB is 3 mm tall (reference). The iPad is 13.4 mm thick, according to Wikipedia. I don't see a size issue, and considering that everybody else and their mother puts a USB slot on their device, I can't see cost being an issue either. They're simply commodity parts now. To not include something that won't mess with aesthetics, for pennies in hardware costs, that many people would find useful, seems asinine to me.

Originally Posted by harryE123

(btw, put an itunes library on a nas and access it from everywhere, what's the big deal - and now with airplay stream any content from within an idevice via apple tv to any stereo/tv system.)

All I am saying is that just because a device is bolder in taking steps forward with tec doesn't make it a bad choice, all the more so when there are so many options open for you like the ones I described.

When it locks you into only one way of doing things, the Apple way, then it's not bolder. What if I don't have any other iDevice? I then look around at all the perfectly working older equipment I have that uses standard interfaces that I would have to replace with iDevices. It gets rather expensive when you do that.

[Kolenka]

Originally Posted by MovieBird

As far as abandoning floppies first, I don't see that as a good thing. Up until the past few years you could not flash the BIOS on your motherboard from anything other than a floppy.

I don't see anything wrong with your viewpoint on the subject (even though I disagree), but this example here is a bit of a strawman. When Apple ditched floppies, they didn't use floppies to flash the firmware on the motherboard (or anything else that vital) on their machines.

They could boot directly from CD, they could flash the firmware by writing the update to NVRAM and rebooting (the firmware would then update itself). Now, the sad reality is that even now, your phone's boot firmware is more advanced than what is in your BIOS because of a lack of drive to move to something like EFI which would modernize it. It gets the job done, but it's still one of those small things that if polished, leave an impact on the average customer.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

The problem with cloud computing is one isn't always where even a 3G connection is available.

The problem with cloud computing is that you are assuming that the remote computers will be functioning and accessible at any time when you need them-- and you know what they say about people who assume.

[MovieBird]

Originally Posted by Kolenka

I don't see anything wrong with your viewpoint on the subject (even though I disagree), but this example here is a bit of a strawman. When Apple ditched floppies, they didn't use floppies to flash the firmware on the motherboard (or anything else that vital) on their machines.

They could boot directly from CD, they could flash the firmware by writing the update to NVRAM and rebooting (the firmware would then update itself). Now, the sad reality is that even now, your phone's boot firmware is more advanced than what is in your BIOS because of a lack of drive to move to something like EFI which would modernize it. It gets the job done, but it's still one of those small things that if polished, leave an impact on the average customer.

I don't use Macs unless at a friends house, but my understanding was that the G3 iMac simply reset to default values on the PRAM? My issue on the PC side was updating to a newer version. As an aside, it really galls me when manufacturers give firmware updates in the form of an *.exe.

[Kolenka]

Originally Posted by MovieBird

I don't use Macs unless at a friends house, but my understanding was that the G3 iMac simply reset to default values on the PRAM? My issue on the PC side was updating to a newer version. As an aside, it really galls me when manufacturers give firmware updates in the form of an *.exe.

Machines of that era used Open Firmware. Settings were stored in the NVRAM (PRAM is an old term) and could be reset, but it was possible to use the NVRAM to write a firmware update that Open Firmware could load as well. It was sent out in the form of an installer app, but the means of updating was safe enough (the firmware update could be rejected if corrupted). Even the G3 iMac got at least one firmware update this way.

[harryE123]

//edit: oops, I just realised this is primarily an e-ink tech screen, apologies for the long digression here.

I was about to say I rest my case when I read the floppy argument, but Kolenka covered this far better than I could have.

I won't respond to the op point by point because it's evident the divide is very large in our disagreement here. As a token response for usb I will say again that you can still use your camera connection kit to transfer photos via usb, and on a jailbroken ipad you can even use it they way you want for general file transfer, so what's the big deal?

(and yes I did mean apple implemented usb only first) I will also ask the op if usb is so important to the devices, they might want to explain how in a market that has been stale for 10 years (tablets) -ever since in the early 00s gates predicted that in a couple of years everyone would be using tablets- Apple managed to sell more than 3 millions devices in three months. Surely, usb can't be that important.

Also, AAC is also not apple specific, it's an open standard and apple use it because very noticeably better than mp3. Yet they allow you to rip to mp3, and unlike MS they haven't drmed wmv, but where those that managed to actually take the consumer out of drm hell by convincing the music industry. So you can't play flac because there's apple lossless for itunes, it's not a big a deal to convert from flac takes second for one cd. And no apple doesn't support linux, why should they support .05% of the population, but there are a few open source alternatives for idevice syncing.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by harryE123

I won't respond to the op point by point because it's evident the divide is very large in our disagreement here. As a token response for usb I will say again that you can still use your camera connection kit to transfer photos via usb, and on a jailbroken ipad you can even use it they way you want for general file transfer, so what's the big deal?

I assume by 'OP' you mean me, here (you are the 'OP' - 'original poster' of the thread).

I said I'd like my device to have an SD card and a USB port built in. You're saying you're happy to purchase and use external devices for this. There is no conflict here. The conflict only arises when you try to convince me that I would rather use workarounds instead of simply having the functionality built into the device.

Originally Posted by harryE123

(and yes I did mean apple implemented usb only first) I will also ask the op if usb is so important to the devices, they might want to explain how in a market that has been stale for 10 years (tablets) -ever since in the early 00s gates predicted that in a couple of years everyone would be using tablets- Apple managed to sell more than 3 millions devices in three months. Surely, usb can't be that important.

Because they've produced a really nice machine that a lot of people want. I've said before that I think the iPad is a great, fun machine. It just doesn't happen to be ideal for my requirements - which include the need for a USB port, SD card slot and Flash.

Graham

[harryE123]

Points well taken. Having said that, there's a different between a really nice machine, and game changer, and the ipad is the latter. As for flash unless you go with a full win 7 tablet (if there is one that is vapourware) which as the last purchase in the tech world I would suggest, you have to aware that flash it has been documented to have issues, severe, crippling issues, in all mobile platforms, from stuttering, to not being touch optimised so you can't interact with it etc, etc. Of course if for some reason you do need it, something half functional is better than nothing. Apple opted for the future and open standards in html 5, but I am sure some people might be using flash websites and would want flash. They should check first though if flash actually works in said devices, because adobe's mobile flash isn't the full desktop flash, nor is a touch interface a point and click one.

Let me also add that I too would like the flexibility of an sd card slot, for sure, and when I first came to apple products -being on the pc side of things and used reducing a product to its specs- I found it awful that they would not include an sd card. But I did understand their rationale that they do have to control the storage in these devices to be able to motivate people to upgrade, and what is more, I realised I didn't really need it that much, it would be a welcome addition, but the actual product was so much better than the sum of its parts that it didn't really matter. And the ipad is, to me, indeed magical. It's not just marketing speak. If you haven't used one then by all means do so for a few days, because there's no other way to gauge how good it is in use. Of course I am sure your needs are your needs and you 'll continue to look for something else for usb/sd/flash, but at least you might see that all the actual shortcomings are not as striking as the perceived shortcomings.

[Graham]

Back on topic ... ... I'm actually with you on the original point of the thread.

I did think that we'd be in a position by now where I could buy an A4 or Letter-sized eInk device, and I'm disappointed with the way the market has left that particular option aside for the time being. I can appreciate the reasons why this has happened, but it's still disappointing.

Hopefully the market for 5" and 6" devices will grow to the point where larger paper-like screens are sustainable. They may be eInk, they may be something else. It looks like we're going to have to wait for at least a few more years. They'll arrive eventually.

Graham

[harryE123]

Let's hope so Graham, I have an irex 10 ds reader (which is nothing to write home about what with the touch screen glare and the non pear screen, but at least it half did its job) that cracked a few weeks and they won't fix it for me, and I've been patiently waiting to for the likes of sony and that long lost vapourware of plastic logic. So out of three major players one won't release even a 9.7" device, the other folded, and the third came up with nothing.

At least if amazon had epub (and to a lesser extend wifi) I d go for the dx graphite so I could borrow library books there. But now it seems I have to have a sony for reading novels and pretty much nothing else for epub's sake, AND get the kindle dx too for reading some larger text and for reading with more ease, and I already have an ipad (which I can't read books on because of the eye strain but which I enjoy for pretty much everything else), iphone, macs, and a macbook. Talk about technology simplifying one's life... I might as well ditch all them and just grab a book, lol!

[leebase]

Reading multiple books at once, effective note taking, annotation, etc. -- the kinds of things you need to do when you aren't merely reading a novel. The kinds of things you need to do as a student or a professional.

They will come -- as apps -- on the iPad and forthcoming Android/Windows slates -- in time. And probably a lot sooner, and mature a lot faster, than on dedicated eInk readers.

In the wake of the iPad, there simply is no business case for high end eInk devices like the Que was going to be. The benefit is going to be in the software, not the screen technology. Look for Plastic Logic to come out with an iPad app. They'll make more money putting their technology on the iPad (and Android), than they ever would selling a high end eInk reader.

For those who just really have to have eInk -- I think you are going to be disappointed. The future of eInk is in cheaper, mass market devices like the Kindle, Nook, Kobo etc.

Lee

[Graham]

Lee, note I said "paper-like" in my post above, rather than necessarily eInk.

Yes, we are disappointed, for all the reasons you state, but cling to the idea that somewhere down the line the economies of scale will allow a larger format device with a paper-like screen.

The solution may well come from the evolution of the iOS/Android devices, of course, if they inherit new screen technology, but we'd also want to see an accompanying reduction in weight and increase in battery life - and doubtless that will also happen. The future still looks pretty exciting, but it is disappointing that this bit of it's not here yet.

Graham

[leebase]

It appears that some folks have confuzzeled screen tech with reading tech. The multi function tablets have destroyed the business case for high end dedicated readers...but they should also be excellent platforms for maturing reading tech.

Any screen tech, at the high end, is going to also occur on a multi-function tablet. Perhaps with the likes of the Pixel Qi screen.

Lee

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by leebase

Look for Plastic Logic to come out with an iPad app. They'll make more money putting their technology on the iPad (and Android), than they ever would selling a high end eInk reader.

Lee

You seem to have missed completely what Plastic Logic's Technology is. The PL tech is plastic electronics. That tech enables thin light robust flexible devices. It is not about the software that was running the device. The que was just a showcase for the plastic transistor and backplane technology. There is no app for that.

Originally Posted by leebase

Reading multiple books at once, effective note taking, annotation, etc. -- the kinds of things you need to do when you aren't merely reading a novel. The kinds of things you need to do as a student or a professional.

These kinds of things are already available on a few current eink devices and improved versions are coming out now in the new PocketBook readers.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by leebase

It appears that some folks have confuzzeled screen tech with reading tech.

Yes, we can leave the discussion on "full print size" and "paper-like" there for now.

You've made some excellent points with regard to reading tech, and ElfWreck also added some enhancements he'd like to see with regard to coding of bookmarks and quick page scanning in the other thread.

A quick way to switch between multiple books would be great, and the ability to split the screen and see pages from each at once.

What else might be useful? Instant translation? Passing a book around multiple annotators, or having it shared across multiple devices at the same time for annotation? Instant quiz generation based on contents? Better search facilities, listing all instances of the search term rather than a jump to the next item (probably already exists in some readers)?

Graham