Ebook reader/editor with very strick adherence

Steven Lake · 09-03-2010, 05:22 PM

Ok, I've got a real wing dinger for you guys. Right now I use Calibre and Sigil for ebook construction and proofing. (I also use a php script for fast and dirty text to xml conversion on the raw book) However, neither of them is strict enough on their handling of tags to provide a good quality final product. This then leaves me having to plug my ebooks into a nook (which currently is the only thing I have for final syntax and appearance testing of ebooks) to test for bad syntax and formatting that Sigil and Calibre seem so content to completely overlook and ignore.

If it wasn't for the Nook, I'd have a lot of broken stuff in my ebooks. However, I don't want to have to drag out the nook and plug it in everytime I finish an ebook just to test for things the other two should point out to me automatically. (BTW, if you guys hadn't heard, I'm now converting books to epub for others as a service to help out people, since others helped me out when I was first learning how to build them)

The reason I run it through the nook for syntax and format testing is, if I don't, I'm gonna have a lot of people pop the ebooks into their ereaders, the books will go boom, and I'll never hear the end of it. So I double, triple, and quadruple check them before they go out so they're bug free. Well, the Nook just doesn't cut it anymore cause it's slow (I don't know if it's me or not, but that thing seems to keep getting slower the more I use it! WTH!?) and a pain to work with. Plus, I would much rather do all of my syntax and final checking via a software program if possible so I can keep all the work in one place on my laptop and not have to sneaker net it all over the place.

So, my question follows as this. What ebook editing or viewing program out there would be so syntax sensitive that it would flag me on every little syntax issue so I can spot these problems and root them out right away. Maybe also have it be able to point out problems with fonts too, such as the issues I keep seeing with fancy quotes and fancy triple dots (ie, something like this: ... ) As it is now, I have to manually clean up the fancy quotes and dots in a text file before moving on to actually building the book. The thing is, some people use more than those types of fancy elements, which then breaks or screws up the ebook, and I'd like to find those and fix them.

Anywho, that's my need. Suggest away.

CyGuy · 09-03-2010, 05:25 PM

Which application do you use for spell checking? Sorry...

ardeegee · 09-03-2010, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyGuy

Which application do you use for spell checking? Sorry...

Hey, don't be so strick on the guy!

capidamonte · 09-03-2010, 06:52 PM

Don't use Calibre to make your ePubs if you're trying to make beautiful books. I love the program, but it uses a lot of workarounds in an effort to cover the massive amount of garbage that it gets fed. It's perfect for a quick conversion and transfer for reading.

Edit in a text editor (NoteTab!) as spare, strict XHTML, with good CSS and excellent structure. Import to Sigil, add your breaks, semantic content, edit your TOC, etc., etc. and save as ePub.

Don't use something that Calibre created for you as a source in Sigil -- it's going to be unreadable in code view, and force you to edit visually instead of logically.

The next version of Sigil is going to have an ePub checking library, I think.

That said, if you use Linux, the Dillo web browser has an excellent XHTML checker built into it. Launch a page and the bugs show up in the lower right corner -- click on that and it give you line numbers with errors.

$0.02

pholy · 09-03-2010, 08:07 PM

I create my HTML using Open Office Writer; open my source document, then open a new html document and copy and paste my selection into it. I save that, the run it through tidy to create an xhtml document (with appropriate options to collect up all the styles in one place). Then i move the useful styles into my css and delete the rest. A little tool called quoter fixes the straight quotes (mostly). After I prepare the content and ncx files I zip it up and send it off to the epub validator tool at threepress.org. (You can download a java version - I don't recall where...) Or you can search mobileread for 'Azardi' and find a Windows reader/checker/editor - which is what you really want for final checking. I'm working on adapting it for Linux and Mac, soon I hope.

So, in short form - you want the threepress.org epub validator or Azardi for checking, and some of the other bits to have less error to fix

AlexBell · 09-04-2010, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pholy

So, in short form - you want the threepress.org epub validator or Azardi for checking, and some of the other bits to have less error to fix

Could I suggest that well before checking with ePubcheck one should check the HTML and stylesheet with the W3C Markup Validation Service at

http://validator.w3.org/ - there is a link to the online CSS checker also. That service is free, and there is an shareware program, A Real Validator, which works off line and is available at http://arealvalidator.com/ though it doesn't do CSS.

In my opinion there really is no point in relying on ePubcheck if the HTML and CSS isn't known to be valid.

For what it is worth I prefer to use a designated HTML editor rather than a text editor - I use the Coffee Cup HTML editor, but there are others.

I wouldn't be seen dead in a ditch with the HTML produced by OpenOffice.org.

Regards, Alex

speakingtohe · 09-05-2010, 02:05 AM

Nothing beats a good human proofreader

Kumabjorn · 09-05-2010, 06:16 AM

Maybe a tad OT, but doesn't B&N and Amazon provide a PC/Mac simulator of their reader software so you can check it on-screen before sending out the finished output?

Clancy_s · 09-05-2010, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

Maybe a tad OT, but doesn't B&N and Amazon provide a PC/Mac simulator of their reader software so you can check it on-screen before sending out the finished output?

They do, but the simulators are not perfect and don't always show things the way the appear on the readers.

Kumabjorn · 09-05-2010, 09:57 AM

Book developers should demand better simulation software then.
Just my 2 cents.

Steven Lake · 09-06-2010, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

Maybe a tad OT, but doesn't B&N and Amazon provide a PC/Mac simulator of their reader software so you can check it on-screen before sending out the finished output?

Last I checked, they're not available for Linux, and I refuse to run Mac or Windows.

Kumabjorn · 09-06-2010, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Last I checked, they're not available for Linux, and I refuse to run Mac or Windows.

Since Kindle run on a Linux kernel that seems rather surprising. I'd imagine that Amazon would want the best possible book layout for their own platform. Seems short-sighted.

Steven Lake · 09-06-2010, 09:12 AM

Kindle is a device, and using the Linux kernel is preferred as it's the best platform for the job. However, when it comes to desktop PC's, they don't see Linux as being prolific enough (a common misconception) to warrant making a Linux version. It's one of the things we've been yelling at companies about in the Linux world for years. IE, don't ignore us! We're more common than you think!

09-03-2010, 05:22 PM	#1
Steven Lake Sci-Fi Author Posts: 1,158 Karma: 14743509 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Device: PC (Calibre)	Ebook reader/editor with very strick adherence Ok, I've got a real wing dinger for you guys. Right now I use Calibre and Sigil for ebook construction and proofing. (I also use a php script for fast and dirty text to xml conversion on the raw book) However, neither of them is strict enough on their handling of tags to provide a good quality final product. This then leaves me having to plug my ebooks into a nook (which currently is the only thing I have for final syntax and appearance testing of ebooks) to test for bad syntax and formatting that Sigil and Calibre seem so content to completely overlook and ignore. If it wasn't for the Nook, I'd have a lot of broken stuff in my ebooks. However, I don't want to have to drag out the nook and plug it in everytime I finish an ebook just to test for things the other two should point out to me automatically. (BTW, if you guys hadn't heard, I'm now converting books to epub for others as a service to help out people, since others helped me out when I was first learning how to build them) The reason I run it through the nook for syntax and format testing is, if I don't, I'm gonna have a lot of people pop the ebooks into their ereaders, the books will go boom, and I'll never hear the end of it. So I double, triple, and quadruple check them before they go out so they're bug free. Well, the Nook just doesn't cut it anymore cause it's slow (I don't know if it's me or not, but that thing seems to keep getting slower the more I use it! WTH!?) and a pain to work with. Plus, I would much rather do all of my syntax and final checking via a software program if possible so I can keep all the work in one place on my laptop and not have to sneaker net it all over the place. So, my question follows as this. What ebook editing or viewing program out there would be so syntax sensitive that it would flag me on every little syntax issue so I can spot these problems and root them out right away. Maybe also have it be able to point out problems with fonts too, such as the issues I keep seeing with fancy quotes and fancy triple dots (ie, something like this: ... ) As it is now, I have to manually clean up the fancy quotes and dots in a text file before moving on to actually building the book. The thing is, some people use more than those types of fancy elements, which then breaks or screws up the ebook, and I'd like to find those and fix them. Anywho, that's my need. Suggest away.

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09-03-2010, 05:25 PM	#2
CyGuy Avid Reader Posts: 769 Karma: 7777778 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: PocketBook 902, Galaxy Tab 2 7.0, ASUS TF700, and Cybook Gen III	Which application do you use for spell checking? Sorry...

09-03-2010, 06:52 PM	#4
capidamonte Not who you think I am... Posts: 374 Karma: 30283 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Honolulu Device: PocketBook 360 -- Ivory	Don't use Calibre to make your ePubs if you're trying to make beautiful books. I love the program, but it uses a lot of workarounds in an effort to cover the massive amount of garbage that it gets fed. It's perfect for a quick conversion and transfer for reading. Edit in a text editor (NoteTab!) as spare, strict XHTML, with good CSS and excellent structure. Import to Sigil, add your breaks, semantic content, edit your TOC, etc., etc. and save as ePub. Don't use something that Calibre created for you as a source in Sigil -- it's going to be unreadable in code view, and force you to edit visually instead of logically. The next version of Sigil is going to have an ePub checking library, I think. That said, if you use Linux, the Dillo web browser has an excellent XHTML checker built into it. Launch a page and the bugs show up in the lower right corner -- click on that and it give you line numbers with errors. $0.02

09-03-2010, 08:07 PM	#5
pholy Booklegger Posts: 1,801 Karma: 7999816 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Device: BeBook(1 & 2010), PEZ, PRS-505, Kobo BT, PRS-T1, Playbook, Kobo Touch	I create my HTML using Open Office Writer; open my source document, then open a new html document and copy and paste my selection into it. I save that, the run it through tidy to create an xhtml document (with appropriate options to collect up all the styles in one place). Then i move the useful styles into my css and delete the rest. A little tool called quoter fixes the straight quotes (mostly). After I prepare the content and ncx files I zip it up and send it off to the epub validator tool at threepress.org. (You can download a java version - I don't recall where...) Or you can search mobileread for 'Azardi' and find a Windows reader/checker/editor - which is what you really want for final checking. I'm working on adapting it for Linux and Mac, soon I hope. So, in short form - you want the threepress.org epub validator or Azardi for checking, and some of the other bits to have less error to fix

09-05-2010, 02:05 AM	#7
speakingtohe Wizard Posts: 4,812 Karma: 26912940 Join Date: Apr 2010 Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet	Nothing beats a good human proofreader

09-05-2010, 06:16 AM	#8
Kumabjorn Basculocolpic Posts: 4,356 Karma: 20181319 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sweden Device: Kindle 3 WiFi, Kindle 4SO, Kindle for Android, Sony PRS-350 and PRS-T1	Maybe a tad OT, but doesn't B&N and Amazon provide a PC/Mac simulator of their reader software so you can check it on-screen before sending out the finished output?

09-05-2010, 09:57 AM	#10
Kumabjorn Basculocolpic Posts: 4,356 Karma: 20181319 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sweden Device: Kindle 3 WiFi, Kindle 4SO, Kindle for Android, Sony PRS-350 and PRS-T1	Book developers should demand better simulation software then. Just my 2 cents.

09-06-2010, 09:12 AM	#13
Steven Lake Sci-Fi Author Posts: 1,158 Karma: 14743509 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Device: PC (Calibre)	Kindle is a device, and using the Linux kernel is preferred as it's the best platform for the job. However, when it comes to desktop PC's, they don't see Linux as being prolific enough (a common misconception) to warrant making a Linux version. It's one of the things we've been yelling at companies about in the Linux world for years. IE, don't ignore us! We're more common than you think!