Using "alternative" sources to obtain books you already own?

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by ManosHandsOfFate

I wonder if discussions like this ever change someone's mind.

I take your point that the bickering back and forth doesn't help, but sometimes people make points that get me thinking.

For example, on this thread, there was the question about is it right to waste a well-made thing that could benefit someone else because you have no need for it physically (having digitised it in some way)? The denial of possible sale, while a valid point, seems more tenuous than the definite benefit that the recipient gets.

So, I find some of the points interesting, even though the sniping - which is, I guess, what you mean - gets tedious.

[ManosHandsOfFate]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

The denial of possible sale, while a valid point, seems more tenuous than the definite benefit that the recipient gets.

I like the idea of taking the money from selling books I otherwise would have trashed and donating it to a charity that helps save the lives of poor children in developing countries.

Any remaining guilt I might have is completely negated!

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by ManosHandsOfFate

I like the idea of taking the money from selling books I otherwise would have trashed and donating it to a charity that helps save the lives of poor children in developing countries.

Any remaining guilt I might have is completely negated!

Even though you are probably breaking copyright law (assuming you are referring to after having made a copy to keep)?

[leebase]

I have no problem getting ebook copies of books I have paid for

I mean, when "my friend" does

Lee

[dreams]

Just a reminder of the moderating note on the first page of this thread.

Folks,

Please keep this discussion polite. Personal attacks are unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Disagree with the viewpoint, but don't attack the person.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

[Moderating Team]

[ManosHandsOfFate]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

Even though you are probably breaking copyright law (assuming you are referring to after having made a copy to keep)?

I can feel happy that I'm helping to save children's lives and wonder at those people who somehow rationalize not saving children's lives by throwing the books out just to avoid breaking copyright law.


[wrings hands]

Think of the children Lady Fitzgerald!

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by ManosHandsOfFate

I can feel happy that I'm helping to save children's lives and wonder at those people who somehow rationalize not saving children's lives by throwing the books out just to avoid breaking copyright law.


[wrings hands]

Think of the children Lady Fitzgerald!

More rationalization with a dose of emotional appeal (aka guilt tripping) added.

[ficbot]

This whole argument reminds me of the lady who went on the Dr. Phil show once because her teenaged daughter wanted birth control. She did not want to give it to her because she felt that teenagers should not be having sex. When Dr. Phil pointed out that the boy's mother caught them in bed together and called to tell her about it, her only answer was 'well, you like to give them the benefit of the doubt...'

Whether people should be or shouldn't be, whether it is teen sex or downloading books and music, is a totally separate issue as to whether they *are* and if you care (in this instance) about reclaiming them as customers giving money to you, instead of as people doing whatever it is they are doing, you'll deal with the reality of it and try to win them back on a better customer experience, rather than wringing your hands as to the morality of it.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

Could you explain how that is legal?

I said it was 100% illegal.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Rich_D

And yet I seem fine with it.

If you had once bought an LP. Would you expect to get the CD for free?

If you buy the hardcover, do you expect to get a free paperback?

So why do you expect to get a free eBook when you own a pBook version?

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by ficbot

This whole argument reminds me of the lady who went on the Dr. Phil show once because her teenaged daughter wanted birth control. She did not want to give it to her because she felt that teenagers should not be having sex. When Dr. Phil pointed out that the boy's mother caught them in bed together and called to tell her about it, her only answer was 'well, you like to give them the benefit of the doubt...'

Whether people should be or shouldn't be, whether it is teen sex or downloading books and music, is a totally separate issue as to whether they *are* and if you care (in this instance) about reclaiming them as customers giving money to you, instead of as people doing whatever it is they are doing, you'll deal with the reality of it and try to win them back on a better customer experience, rather than wringing your hands as to the morality of it.

Even if means breaking the law?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Rich_D

This is where we start getting into the what ifs. An equally persuasive argument could be made that providing a used copy of a book may peak a reader's interest in an author that they wouldn't ordinarily read and generate additional sales from different titles in that author's body of work.

My reasons were much simpler. I wanted to clear up the space the books were occupying and even though I have the capability to produce my own ebook from hard copy, it results in destroying the book. I'm not comfortable with that. I think it is a waste. I replaced my purchased copies (some bought multiple times in multiple formats) with ebooks and was able to pass on my favorites to someone else. I hope they get as much enjoyment from them as I did.

I didn't profit monetarily from the exercise but the publishers and authors may be out a few bucks from the 80 or so titles I downloaded. If they choose to pursue legal action, I'll pay the penalty.

Do I think I was wrong in this course of action? No.

Do some anonymous entities on this message board think I'm a thief? Probably.

Do I care? Not one bit.

You might have been OK with having the eBook version when you owned the pBook. Like format shifting. And I say MIGHT. But it was when you got rid of the pBooks and kept the eBooks that there was no doubt that what you did was wrong.

[ficbot]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

Even if means breaking the law?

This is my whole point though. Whether it's wrong or it's right or whether people should or shouldn't be is immaterial to the issue of they *are* and that's is the reality that the industry needs to deal with if it wants to convert them into paying customers. The legality is not an issue for most people. Driving over the speed limit is illegal and people do it. Smoking pot is illegal in many places, and people do it. There are a thousand tiny judgment calls people make all the time (I have only had one glass of wine so I am okay to drive, I will claim this dinner as a business expense even though we only talked business for five minutes, etc.) on all sorts of laws. If you spend all if your time defending why something is right or wrong, you'll miss what is actually going on---the same way that woman on Dr. Phil could argue all she wanted to about not giving birth control to her daughter because she shouldn't be having sex, but that ship had already sailed, and by refusing to acknowledge that because of how she was *feeling* the woman was actually putting her daughter's health at risk.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by ficbot

This is my whole point though. Whether it's wrong or it's right or whether people should or shouldn't be is immaterial to the issue of they *are* and that's is the reality that the industry needs to deal with if it wants to convert them into paying customers. The legality is not an issue for most people. Driving over the speed limit is illegal and people do it. Smoking pot is illegal in many places, and people do it. There are a thousand tiny judgment calls people make all the time (I have only had one glass of wine so I am okay to drive, I will claim this dinner as a business expense even though we only talked business for five minutes, etc.) on all sorts of laws. If you spend all if your time defending why something is right or wrong, you'll miss what is actually going on---the same way that woman on Dr. Phil could argue all she wanted to about not giving birth control to her daughter because she shouldn't be having sex, but that ship had already sailed, and by refusing to acknowledge that because of how she was *feeling* the woman was actually putting her daughter's health at risk.

None of what you said excuses breaking the law. Your analogy to the Dr. Phil episode doesn't really fit here. You are comparing a disregard for obeying the law for feeling something is right or wrong opposed to what is realistic. Despite what most people may think, obeying the law won't kill them.

[ficbot]

I am not saying it excuses it, Jeannie. I am only saying that for most people it doesn't matter---and business ignores this reality at its own peril.