Seriously thoughtful A Life ?

[kindlekitten]

that is exactly what I meant by briefly comparing it to the cowboy way. NOT!!!

these folks are dependent upon modern conveniences to continue their existence (and friends sofas). I am perfectly capable of saddling up the ponies, heading for the hills and completely taking care of myself for any given period of time, even forever if need be. I certainly would not have 3000 bucks of modern digital equipment in my gear. nor would I be couch surfing or depending uponthe kindness of others

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

that is exactly what I meant by briefly comparing it to the cowboy way. NOT!!!

these folks are dependent upon modern conveniences to continue their existence (and friends sofas). I am perfectly capable of saddling up the ponies, heading for the hills and completely taking care of myself for any given period of time, even forever if need be. I certainly would not have 3000 bucks of modern digital equipment in my gear. nor would I be couch surfing or depending uponthe kindness of others

But you would be dependent on the technological necessities that were abundant in the cowboy era (knives, saddle and the like) and also the Cowboy historically was not self-sufficient in that he would need supplies from communities after certain periods of time, or would be in a group of other cowboys who shared their food, whiskey and bullets. Just as the cowboy needed the the horse, the saddle and the rifle, so the digital cowhandler needs the laptop, the couch and the 4G mobile phone.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

But you would be dependent on the technological necessities that were abundant in the cowboy era (knives, saddle and the like) and also the Cowboy historically was not self-sufficient in that he would need supplies from communities after certain periods of time, or would be in a group of other cowboys who shared their food, whiskey and bullets. Just as the cowboy needed the the horse, the saddle and the rifle, so the digital cowhandler needs the laptop, the couch and the 4G mobile phone.

you obviously have not read the initial article and seen what it is all about. your two linked articles are more about self reliance upon the land, what we here refer to as sustainable living. not trundling about a large metro area with your laptop, keyboard, designer clothes, and trying to figure out where to couchsurf this next night

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

you obviously have not read the initial article and seen what it is all about. your two linked articles are more about self reliance upon the land, what we here refer to as sustainable living. not trundling about a large metro area with your laptop, keyboard, designer clothes, and trying to figure out where to couchsurf this next night

My two linked 'articles' were in relation to my own path of digital minimalism (I own less than 100 objects, will never and have never reproduced etc), self-reliance and idling, part of which is the noble tradition of the Flaneur (trundling about as you would put it), and neither are articles but waypoints into the world of the idler and the 'trundler'.

The original article has a direct relation to what I was talking about and has everything to do with a shift away from the mores of the traditional culture - get, posses, own, reproduce etc. You talked about the cowboy way, which in and of itself is a romantic notion of 'trundling' and self-sufficiency that is particularly American in its romanticism (unlike the Gaucho Cowboy tradition of Argentina which is far more community based).

[yvanleterrible]

Tribal life? I can relate to that. But as a religion?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

It can't? (doggie ponders the recent newspaper headlines)

Doggie is on the right track....

most religion IS selfishness.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

I can understand some of the arguments; but this makes me feel sad, and I'm not too sure why ...

BBC link

Cult of Less

Great thread Geoff. I love the idea of minimalism and really really need to start applying it more to my life....

[Greg Anos]

Interesting article. I think the people used as examples have overdone it, but...

I now divide the world up into analog and digital. Anything that can be reasonable digitized, I want digitized.

This doesn't mean I don't have furniture, beds and a house (currently), but what it does mean it than I can have choices not available to people previously.

For example, I love reading. So my lifestyle had been philosophically tied to my heavy, rarely movable library. With e-books, the library shrinks and becomes easily movable. I could consider things like RV'ing a few years in my retirement, seeing the countryside, and still being able to read books at night. Or listen to music, or look at old picture of friends and other memories.

The more my digitizable items are digitized, and redundantly backed-up, including offsite storage, the less at-risk those things are to catastrophic damage, (fire, wind, theft). And nowadays, analog things are cheap and available, so even with a catastrophe, I could rebuild a lot cheaper, because there is less thing to have to replace. If I weren't such a happy gardener, I might downsize.

But different people view life differently. I still have things of sentimental value, and I still want analog things, (bed, chairs, table, digital/analog interface devices), and I never expect this to end until I do. But the quantity keeps shrinking.

Back when I was a pre-med, a older fellow student ('Nam vet) had a shelf of jazz record albums 6 feet long, I believe he stated there was 800 albums (or so). Now I can keep the same amount of music (in WAV files - no compression) on a 2.5" hard drive, weighing 6 ounces (2/10 of a kilo), Including case! The records weighted 300+ pounds (150+ kilos)...

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

My two linked 'articles' were in relation to my own path of digital minimalism (I own less than 100 objects, will never and have never reproduced etc), self-reliance and idling, part of which is the noble tradition of the Flaneur (trundling about as you would put it), and neither are articles but waypoints into the world of the idler and the 'trundler'.

The original article has a direct relation to what I was talking about and has everything to do with a shift away from the mores of the traditional culture - get, posses, own, reproduce etc. You talked about the cowboy way, which in and of itself is a romantic notion of 'trundling' and self-sufficiency that is particularly American in its romanticism (unlike the Gaucho Cowboy tradition of Argentina which is far more community based).

I don't think you get it.

[happy_terd]

I work very hard to have more stuff than my neighbor.

Money is my God.

Amen.

[Ben Thornton]

These people made me think of someone claiming solidarity with the world's poor by living on a dollar a day ...

with their parents ...

and an iPad.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

this sounds NOTHING like Buddhism to me. just minnimalist highly expensive materialism with patient or whimpy friends

I actually thought of the Buddhist ideas of letting go while I was reading the article.

I kind of overlooked the relying on the kindness of others that other posters have commented on. It was the ditching of possessions that appealed to me - and how far that could go.

Added: it just occurred to me that the relying on others' kindness is a Buddhist thing too. I remember reading about a Buddhist monk being asked about the tradition of going from village to village, eating food that the villagers would provide - wasn't it improper to take food from poor people? His reply was that this tradition gave an opportunity for doing good - it struck me as a very profound response. In the West it would never normally occur to us that providing opportunities for others to help us is a good thing to do; and yet it is often the saddest of sights to see an offer of help being refused. We are generally very bad at taking aid graciously, and would much rather refuse it if possible - it reinforces our self-esteem, but dimninishes the worth of others by rejecting what they seek to offer.

[GeoffC]

One wonders, do they pay for the use of couch and where does the electricity for the laptop etc come from, and do they pay ?

Seems a selfish way to live, forever scrounging off friends - precarious too - and it doesn't look as though they don't have money - so what do they do with it ? save for a rainy day when they decide to settle down and let the next generation do unto them what they did unto others ?

[beppe]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I actually thought of the Buddhist ideas of letting go while I was reading the article.

I kind of overlooked the relying on the kindness of others that other posters have commented on. It was the ditching of possessions that appealed to me - and how far that could go.

Added: it just occurred to me that the relying on others' kindness is a Buddhist thing too. I remember reading about a Buddhist monk being asked about the tradition of going from village to village, eating food that the villagers would provide - wasn't it improper to take food from poor people? His reply was that this tradition gave an opportunity for doing good - it struck me as a very profound response. In the West it would never normally occur to us that providing opportunities for others to help us is a good thing to do; and yet it is often the saddest of sights to see an offer of help being refused. We are generally very bad at taking aid graciously, and would much rather refuse it if possible - it reinforces our self-esteem, but dimninishes the worth of others by rejecting what they seek to offer.

I am very close to your way of thinking. Not specifically about Buddhism, but on the rejection of everything except few essentials. And again, considering what are the essentials of these poor souls -that probably see themselves as trend setters - I get the image of the void inside.

[Lexi Revellian]

Mr Yurista is in deep trouble if he is mugged and they take his bike and backpack - or indeed if his friends get fed up with his freeloading ways.

I don't like clutter, but I do like things, or I wouldn't be a jeweller. And the lifestyle described is only suitable for a single person. Children don't do minimalism; it's essential to their development to have lots of toys and other objects to grow up with.