Sony thinks quality will win out (for them)

[Robert Minneman]

I have no idea if anyone brought up this point but it will be hard for any company to compete in the eReader market when they're going up against devices with large vendors behind them, or devices that have functionality way beyond any actual "eReader".

With the Kindle and Nook, you have two very large book stores behind them. With the Apple iPad, not only do you have Apple's AppStore/iTunes distribution point but you have all the other functionality that comes with it that's so far beyond what any other eReader on the market can provide.

Sony is attempting to "niche" itself into a profitable portion of the market, and while yes, the Sony quality is superior (I still have and use my PRS505 on a daily basis), what they are missing is a quality, easy to use, distribution point (like the Nook, Kindle, and even the iPad has), they're missing a quality interface application (not having used the Nook or Kindle, I don't know if their front ends for adding/modifying content are better than Sony's but it wouldn't be hard), and most of all they're missing a WinTel based dev kit so that the user community can more easily keep the device relevant on their own (for example the PRS505 enjoys a few user mods that extend its usability significantly).

Without these things I imagine Sony will only be a tertiary player in the eReader market.

But it's not like Sony hasn't shot itself in the ass before, just take a look at its history:

Betamax (superior in quality, smaller foot print, but licensing made it untenable)
Minidisc (absolutely great idea, again much smaller foot print, more durable, superior quality recording format, but again Sony screwed that up)
Remember the embeded license protection on SonyBMG CD's that was screwing up PC's all over the planet?
Sony PSP (by far the best hand held gaming system made, but the implementation of "minidisc2" and their insistance on not allowing ANY third party create minidiscs they hampered independant development significantly so that, again, it's not the market leader it could/should be)

Sony tends to cut off its nose to spite its own face...

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by kjk

Sony used to own the high quality and design market for consumer electronics. Someone else has taken that chair

Nobody had taken that chair.

The high end is highly fractured, with each contender leaving out entirely features that are deal breakers when absent for sizable sectors of the market.

Pretty much like the high end vehicle market has always been fractured.

[davidspitzer]

Originally Posted by porkupan

You davidspitzer keep repeating this mantra over and over and over. Sony loses, Amazon wins. How are you so sure of it, got a crystal ball? Do you know something that no one else knows? Let's see what happens with Sony Readers in the fall, shall we?

There is a big world out there, and there is room in this world for kindles, sony readers, nooks and for the others too. So your predictions may yet prove to be totally false.

Yes it’s true, I quite possibly could be wrong. That is half the fun on speculating. I have though, been using e-ink devices since they were first incepted and I have personally owned, a Sony LIBRIé, A Sony 505, A Sony 600, A kindle 1, A kindle 2, a kindle DX, An Irex Iliad, and Irex DR1000, An Ipad, and a couple of knock off devices along with android phones, Iphones and palm devices.

I don’t know for a fact that Sony is out, but given their track record in the consumer electronic business of late, the feature set they offer on their eBook readers, their price point, the content store backing their device , the ease of acquiring that content, and the number of platforms you can read their content on compared to their competitors; I am making an educated guess as to their long term viability in this market. Unless they make some drastic and meaningful changes I predict they will not last.

This is an instance where I would be happy to be wrong as it is in my best interest as a consumer to have more options and more competition. The anecdotal evidence before me though bespeaks of a different story for Sony.

The market share of Amazon, B&N and Apple are growing in leaps and bounds, while Sony’s is diminishing. I believe Amazon has achieved name recognition akin to Kleenex in the ereader space. Sony is known for electronics but I do not believe has associated their brand with reading very well for the average consumer. Yes we know it but every time I have been out reading with a device no matter what it is (save for the ipad) the question is always the same "hey is that a kindle?".

My opinion is that Sony, for whatever reason has not found the consumers hearts or pocket books in the reader market, with their current offering. Given this, the lead that Amazon, Apple and B&N have established makes it hard for me to fathom how they will recapture that market

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by fafaforza

That's funny. I've only ever had to install the Reader software to log into Sony's store. And I've done it on all my laptops.

The only time I've heard ADE mentioned was relating to checking books out of public libraries.

Laptops are not EBRs. If you had a Sony 505 or 300, you would have to deal with ADE.

Checking books out of libraries involves yet another program, which evidently also requires ADE.

I get a free book from the University of Chicago each month. It can only be read on the Sonys, and always implicates ADE.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Harmon

I think that in considering the Sony store, you have to include the Sony Library software and ADE. When you put those three things together, it's Major Klutz. The system seems designed to *prevent* one from using it. (And that's not even taking into account that it freezes every time I try to connect my 505 to it, while it readily accepts my 300.)

Originally Posted by Harmon

Laptops are not EBRs. If you had a Sony 505 or 300, you would have to deal with ADE.

Checking books out of libraries involves yet another program, which evidently also requires ADE.

I get a free book from the University of Chicago each month. It can only be read on the Sonys, and always implicates ADE.

You don't have to use ADE at all if you're happy with the Sony software. For anyplace that offers books with Adobe DRM (Kobo, Books On Board, Overdrive Libraries) books can be downloaded directly into Sony's software (open the acsm file with the Sony software instead of ADE). Same goes for Adobe DRM'd freebies from places like U of Chicago. No other programs are need for library books (just the Sony software OR ADE).

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by TheLongshot

You mean to impulse buy DRM-laden books at $10 a pop? I wouldn't exactly call that a desirable "experience". Sounds more like a good business model to try to suck as much money out of you as possible while locking you into their hardware.

Well, the experience does, as you suggest, rely on the concept of "buying" ebooks. Over time, I've sorted out what ebooks I'm willing to buy, what ebooks I will get free from places like Project Gutenberg, and what books I want as pbooks. Since I'm willing to pay for some ebooks, what difference does it make which ebookstore I pay? Well, here's what difference it makes: whatever I buy from Amazon I can read on my ipad, my iphone, and my soon to be K3. Plus, whatever I get from Project Gutenberg - thanks to Calibre.

Sony doesn't give me that option. Neither, for that matter, does Apple. The others do, but the store inventory isn't that large compared to Amazon.

Originally Posted by TheLongshot

Yes, I agree that Sony's store sucks, but so do most DRM-only shops, IMO. I value portability, particularly since not all devices will have software that will support whatever brand of DRM out there. In addition to my wife's 505, I also have a Nokia N900, which I read ePubs on. No DRM support and not likely to be any in the future. Who knows what other device I might own in the future. I don't care how prevalent a format is, I don't want to be locked into one and base my purchasing decisions based on that.

The closest you can come to not being locked in is to use an app on an Apple device.

I also value portability, but in addition, I want better screen clarity. The K2 was too large and dull screened for me. The K3 should be much better.

Originally Posted by TheLongshot

I still have a great love for the 505. Before I lost mine, I used it all the time and probably would still be using it if I still had it.

The 505 is outdated now, but it is a nice piece of equipment, and in my view has a better screen than the K2, in addition to having a smaller form factor. In fact, that's why I bought the 505 instead of the K2. That was before I knew what a kluge the Sony ebook purchasing system is.

[fafaforza]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Laptops are not EBRs. If you had a Sony 505 or 300, you would have to deal with ADE.

Checking books out of libraries involves yet another program, which evidently also requires ADE.

I get a free book from the University of Chicago each month. It can only be read on the Sonys, and always implicates ADE.

If you check my little profile, you'll see what reader I have. And I don't know how you load books onto your 505 or 300, but as far as I know, a computer is needed, with a laptop being a type of computer.

And I've never, ever in my 2+ years of owning the 505 had to deal with Adobe's software. Just the Sony Reader application and a USB cable.

[captcrouton]

Originally Posted by OrcaBlue

You're contradicting yourself. If you SONY never advertised well, how does that give them a bigger reputation for "spin control"?

There. Now, you're talking about Apple.

[rblover]

I had been leaning towards a Sony 900, but changed my mind. The screen is too dark, and it costs too much. Sony got it's heinie kicked in the VCR Wars because it offered too high a quality-video & audio superiority the human eye/ear could not detect without expensive lab equipment-at too high a price. VHS offered 'good enough' video, and sound...for 1/2 to 1/3 the price of Sony's Betamax models. VHS won...carrying JVC, Pioneer, Akai, etc, with it.

Sony seems about to repeat the errors in the E-Reader Wars; losing to Kindle. Sony claims more formats from more sources, than Kindle, including library downloads in epub format. That, and touchscreen, are not enough to warrant the higher price, let alone settleing for a worse screen. Most of the books I would want from the public library are old classics I can get for free, or nearly free, from The Kindle Store. It will take me awhile to get through the 1.8 million books available from Amazon, so I don't think I will need to make use of other sources anytime soon.

I want just a: small, affordable, lightweight, portable, 'easy to read without glare, or eye strain', e-reader which will let me buy, download, store, and read, e-books. I don't want-and won't pay extra for-a bunch of 'already have on my computer' functions...such as email, web surfing, video conferencing, etc. Touchscreen is a fad gizmo I can take, or leave, but will not base a buying decision on. Nor will I pay extra for it. Unless Sony comes out with a '3G+WiFi Kindle like' device for a lot less than the Kindle-and does it within the next few weeks-Sony will be losing my business to Kindle very soon.

[davidspitzer]

Originally Posted by rblover

I had been leaning towards a Sony 900, but changed my mind. The screen is too dark, and it costs too much. Sony got it's heinie kicked in the VCR Wars because it offered too high a quality-video & audio superiority the human eye/ear could not detect without expensive lab equipment-at too high a price. VHS offered 'good enough' video, and sound...for 1/2 to 1/3 the price of Sony's Betamax models. VHS won...carrying JVC, Pioneer, Akai, etc, with it.

Sony seems about to repeat the errors in the E-Reader Wars; losing to Kindle. Sony claims more formats from more sources, than Kindle, including library downloads in epub format. That, and touchscreen, are not enough to warrant the higher price, let alone settleing for a worse screen. Most of the books I would want from the public library are old classics I can get for free, or nearly free, from The Kindle Store. It will take me awhile to get through the 1.8 million books available from Amazon, so I don't think I will need to make use of other sources anytime soon.

I want just a: small, affordable, lightweight, portable, 'easy to read without glare, or eye strain', e-reader which will let me buy, download, store, and read, e-books. I don't want-and won't pay extra for-a bunch of 'already have on my computer' functions...such as email, web surfing, video conferencing, etc. Touchscreen is a fad gizmo I can take, or leave, but will not base a buying decision on. Nor will I pay extra for it. Unless Sony comes out with a '3G+WiFi Kindle like' device for a lot less than the Kindle-and does it within the next few weeks-Sony will be losing my business to Kindle very soon.

I think you will be bery pleased with a kindle

[rblover]

Thanks, davidspitzer

[JeremyZ]

I'd like to see Sony, B&N, etc. stay just competitive enough to keep driving Kindle pricing down and innovation up. (as a Kindle owner) I feel a bit sorry for the rest of you who are anti-establishment and supporting the underdogs.

I think the only contender for Kindle is iPad and iPhone.

[SensualPoet]

Sony is NOT an underdog. It is one of the largest corporations and best recognized (and loved) brands in the world. It has full scale operations in many countries and regions and incredibly opportunity to leverage expertise within and beyond the company.

B&N, by contrast, is a gnat. The fact it has come this far with the Nook -- which still hasn't been in market for a full year -- speaks, pardon the publishing pun, volumes.

There are many ways for the industry to play out, although it sure looks like the balance of 2010 will be viewed as an "inflection point". Nonetheless, you have to wonder what the longer-term impact of Android tablets, iPads, colour e-reader screens (if they come to market, like Mirasol) will be on the current players. A "magazine size" colour page reader at Kindle pricing and capabilities may be where the future lies.

[Efigalaxie]

I dunno about Sony's quality. My prs-600 screen had it's e-ink cells rupture. I sent it back and had to pay for them to replace it within the first 5 months. No, it was never abused or dropped. I have seen many Sony display models in stores suffering with bad screens.

Adobe Digital Editions...required???? Dead wrong. Just the Sony software.

I like the Sony bookstore. I want them to continue to exist. They are so easy to strip DRM from. Yes, I buy my books based on whether or not I can strip the drm. This is why Apple has only sold me one book, yet all my books are in iBooks. Yes, I paid for every damn book. If you strip DRM, keep the books to yourself. Don't be a jerk and distribute them everywhere. Authors and publishers have to eat too. I would not bothering stripping drm if all it did was to encrypt your account info into the book. This would allow the book to be moved anywhere, but if it showed up on the web, you would have some explaining to do! I realize that the books have to be protected from piracy, but to limit me to your choice of readers is stupid.

Sony allows putting books in groups.....this was huge for me. iBooks is behind here. Sony will read epub, PDF, and a couple other formats. Their PDF handling is superior to kindle. Sony has a sd slot....biggie for me on a device with limited memory.

iPad is simply awesome. The e-ink is better for sunny days. Otherwise, I like the iPad.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Efigalaxie

I dunno about Sony's quality. My prs-600 screen had it's e-ink cells rupture. I sent it back and had to pay for them to replace it within the first 5 months. No, it was never abused or dropped. I have seen many Sony display models in stores suffering with bad screens.

Sony doesn't make the displays.