Kindle thead locked, due to discrimination

[AGB]

Originally Posted by Kevin R

I suggest you read Elfwrecks post. He got it right.

All fine and well that you only respond to part of a post. But when the response is showing that you haven't read any further and understood what it said, then you're too entrenched to spend any amount of time on.

[Kevin R]

Originally Posted by AGB

How you claim it is "socio-economical" discrimination, crying that "the world is bigger than the US" when countered, completely ignoring that in order to buy a kindle, you first need the monetary funds for it, next you will have to buy it. THe OP have a kindle - a kindle he presumably bought direct from Amazon.com. He must have had the money for that somehow...

Btw, before you try to claim that this is some sort of "old timer" conspiray ...I'm pretty new here and I am not a part of any old-boy's league. ...But then again, if I were, I'd not tell you.

Take a look at the title of this thread.

...doesn't necessarily mean it's discriminatory, right-wing or whatever monicker you want to adhere to whatever you disagree with.

Ok I will respond

First again Elfwreack got it right, and in this first part you are continuing to attack the OP from the thread becuase she does not want to or cant link a credit card.

"But I would not tell you if I where?" Nice, but only helps my argument,

Title of the thread was apologized for.

The only disagreement is that people attacked the new poster, and mentioning the consumer protection laws and credit cards outside the US is relevant given that Amzaon is a global company.

[AGB]

Originally Posted by Kevin R

Ok I will respond

First again Elfwreack got it right, and in this first part you are continuing to attack the OP from the thread becuase she does not want to or cant link a credit card.

I don't "attack" the OP of that thread. I'm attacking your argumentation. The difference being that when buying an ebookreader, no matter how he/she got it, to begin complaining about not being able to download freebies from a certain supplier because they haven't set up their business to cater to her specific situation is just tough luck.
Having you grasping hold of that and running with it, crying "discrimination" and comparing it to third world contries, racism, hunger and what have is what is attacked here.

"But I would not tell you if I where?" Nice, but only helps my argument,

Actually, that was a bait. I wanted to see if the paranoid notion that it ws old timers ganging up on newbies was indeed paranoid or what.
You took the bait, and it seems paranoia won.

But then again, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you (or something to that effect).

LOL, seriously, though, no, I'm not one of the old guards. I'm as new as my nick will tell you as I just recently bought my very first Ereader.

Title of the thread was apologized for.

Wasn't that apology a bit like "Well, I have nothing against, but I don't like you?".

The only disagreement is that people attacked the new poster,

Boy, have you missed a lot of that thread if that's what you got away from it with!

and mentioning the consumer protection laws and credit cards outside the US is relevant given that Amzaon is a global company.

Yes, it can be relevant, if the context had been slightly different.

Thanks for reading the previous post. Keep up the good work. We are after all on MobileRead

[DixieGal]

OK kids, knock it off. Let's all go to our happy places and read a book. The OP in the original thread was given some helpful advice in amongst the ugliness. Let's hope the bile doesn't spoil her enjoyment of her Kindle, and that soon she will also have an overwhelming TBR list.

I'm reading a book that is very surprising. "The Book of Adam: Autobiography of the First Human Clone". It is hard scifi wrapped in a very human story. It is one of the discount books that Karen (Koland) does such a great job with in the "Kindle Freebies" thread. I got free at iBooks just because I prefer the reading app. It's probably the same evertwhere else as well.

[Kevin R]

Originally Posted by AGB

...comparing it to third world contries, racism, hunger and what have is what is attacked here.

Actually, that was a bait.


Wasn't that apology a bit like "Well, I have nothing against, but I don't like you?".

Boy, have you missed a lot of that thread if that's what you got away from it with!

Yes, it can be relevant, if the context had been slightly different.

Third world countries, really were can you point to such a quote. You cannot...next

Bait...why bait anything?

It was a direct apology, why are you making stuff up in your head.


Nothing was missed from the thread the OP was called crazy, naive and lazy. Will you recognize that. Those words are direct quotes from many posters (oh yes, some 1000+). Still no apology from the group or mods. They only complained about and pointed out a small group that defended the OP and provided information.

Slightly different context, how so? The OP asked for a way to make a formal complaint against Amazon. It is a global company and so she was provided many options depending on where she might live (her location was not provided).

[montsnmags]

I will repeat this one more time, as has been iterated and reiterated to you publicly and privately: the Moderation team did NOT just address you. You keep assuming that this is the case, despite my repeated advice that it is not.

Secondly, the OP has politely and friendily been PMed herself over the matter, encouraging her to return and advising her that she is in no way responsible for the closure of the thread.

I do not know what apology you want from the Mods. We repeatedly requested that people cool it in-thread (only one should be required); we addressed parties off-thread who then persisted anyway; we've repeatedly explained to you why and how we have not been biassed, why we closed the thread, and why there is no organized "group" that you so frequently refer to in pejorative terms; we have explained how disagreement is not hostility; we have explained how your assumption of being threatened through words you've misquoted ("short end of stick" vs. "wrong end of stick") is not valid and occurred through your misunderstanding.

I have spent more time with you on-forum and off-forum trying to explain and clarify than I have with anyone, ever, and yet you continue to willfully and unconstructively distort or ignore my repeated explanations, clarifications and requests as it relates to moderation actions and decisions. You still ask of the mods an apology. You ask so with the premise that the Mods offered the purported insults to the OP, despite explicit actions by the Mods to STOP it (subsequently ignored).

These are distortions, Kevin. You're seeking apology for something in which you were (partly) the cause. Having called the mods biassed, and having ignored our requests, and our on and off-thread words, you call for an apology from us. If it is called for the OP, as mentioned, and despite your groundless assumptions (the same as you make about whom has been addressed over that thread) an encouraging PM has been sent to the OP about the closure of her thread. If it is you requesting an apology, you will not get it.

Cheers,
Marc
Moderator (but not moderating)

[AGB]

Originally Posted by Kevin R

Third world countries, really were can you point to such a quote. You cannot...next

Originally Posted by Kevin R

Tell that to the huge number of people in the world born into poverty. I wont even comment on the naive mention of the mythical case law.

From here:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=25

And since you time and time again proclaim to anyone disagreeing with you that they're all being too "US-centric", it sort of says it all. Do you want me to find the places where you liken it to racism and whatnot?
No?, Well, "Next!", then.

Bait...why bait anything?

I already explained that to you. I even did it humourously I think.

It was a direct apology, why are you making stuff up in your head.

Sigh ...

Let me spell it out for you: If you apologise for a titel that is considered to be somewhat instigative, yet continue in the very thread to use the exact same rhetorical "skills" to get the very same effect, the apology rings hollow. Clear?

Nothing was missed from the thread the OP was called crazy, naive and lazy. Will you recognize that.

What you seem to miss, is that most of that is spill-over from what you instigated, spill over from the people you called "disturbed", implied were racist and so on and so forth. If it hadn't been for your idiotic accusations, they would probably have had a little more energy to be nice, rather than being called all sorts of things when trying to explain that it's simply tough luck having bought something so much held down and limited by Amazon's business model.

Those words are direct quotes from many posters (oh yes, some 1000+).

First of all: You cannot call it a "direct quote" when it obvviously isn't. Several people cannot be directly quoted without numerous people being quoted, unless they have an official spokesman, or otherwise speak with one voice.

Secondly, it really doesn't help you when you try to make belief that more than a thousand posters have ganged together. This is the second time you mention "1000+", beware that a lie repeated enough will become "truth" in the eyes of the repetitor.

Still no apology from the group or mods.

The"group" of which you speak are individual posters. Not some big machine.

They only complained about and pointed out a small group that defended the OP and provided information.

Yes, I take it that in an optimistic light, one or two persons could be considered a "group".

Slightly different context, how so? The OP asked for a way to make a formal complaint against Amazon. It is a global company and so she was provided many options depending on where she might live (her location was not provided).

Wow. Just wow.

Oh, I forgot:
Your little PM where you ask me "I don't get it. Why so angry?" won't get me to respond by PM. There is no need to ask such a question by PM - especially not since you have publicly used that sort of rhetoric ad nauseum during this whole affair.

But, no, I'm not angry. In fact, I'm having a great ole laugh at your expense.

[Kevin R]

Originally Posted by montsnmags

I will repeat this one more time, as has been iterated and reiterated to you publicly and privately: the Moderation team did NOT just address you.

The fact is that my post was the only one publicly 'called out', no mention or care was publicly given to the direct and rather mean attacks on the OP. Those attacks are much worse, I was engaged in dialogue with folks that were bashing the OP. Those opinions were by long time posters. Those are facts. I am sorry but they need to be pointed out.

[Kevin R]

Originally Posted by AGB

From here:

And since you time and time again proclaim to anyone disagreeing with you that they're all being too "US-centric",



I already explained that to you. I even did it humourously I think.



Sigh ...

Let me spell it out for you: If you apologies for a title that is considered to be somewhat investigative, yet continue in the very thread to use the exact same rhetorical "skills" to get the very same effect, the apology rings hollow. Clear?




... implied were racist and so on and so forth. ...idiotic accusations

having bought something so much held down and limited by Amazon's business model.


First of all: You cannot call it a "direct quote"

Secondly, it really doesn't help you when you try to make belief that more than a thousand posters have ganged together. This is the second time you mention "1000+",



But, no, I'm not angry. In fact, I'm having a great ole laugh at your expense.

No if you had read the post the UScentric comments were because people kept refering to US banking law, and it needed to be pointed out that the kindle is global.

Keep your day job...

Really you are very offensive, I never called anyone racist. Please show me where that happened?

Do you work for Amazon?

A direct quote is when someone uses those words in that order, that is what happened.

I am not sure why people are so offended. But if you are a long time member and pick on new posters, well what do you expect.

The laugh is that you will lose sleep and I will not.

[montsnmags]

Originally Posted by Kevin R

The fact is that my post was the only one publicly 'called out', no mention or care was publicly given to the direct and rather mean attacks on the OP. Those attacks are much worse, I was engaged in dialogue with folks that were bashing the OP. Those opinions were by long time posters. Those are facts. I am sorry but they need to be pointed out.

Further distortion.

Post 48, poohbear makes a clear moderator request from everyone for politeness and civility.

Post 49, you continue with a personal attack.

I followed up, my "calling out" immediately reflected your willful ignorance of moderator intervention meant to stop the very thing you wanted stopped.

Your persistence in continuing this closed affair here in such a manner is not constructive. I can see no further way to address the issue that you will not continue to willfully ignore or distort or goad (Moderators or others). There is no way to make you satisfied that intersects with possibility. As such, with your demonstrable unwillingness to see any disagreement as anything other than hostility and persecution I see no further purpose in continuing. You have eked and laid waste all attempts at satisfaction from my Moderator-role resources and patience.

Cheers,
Marc
Moderator (but not moderating)

[AGB]

Originally Posted by Kevin R

No if you had read the post the UScentric comments were because people kept refering to US banking law, and it needed to be pointed out that the kindle is global.

Sheesh.
Yes, the kindle is "global", in the sense that you can't buy it or buy books for it from Amazon from many other places than the US. In that setting, sure it's global.

But here's the thing: You can't at one part of the argument claim that kindle is "global", yet have another premise going straight against it: That they need to be contacted directly, and that even if abroad, they have to go through the FTC, BBB (or whatever it's called over there).

Keep your day job...

Thanks. I'm a journo, so it works out fine for me.

Really you are very offensive, I never called anyone racist. Please show me where that happened?

LOL, I'm being offensive? No, I'm just having a laught.

Somewhat in context (and it also shows how you move the goal posts constantly:

Restaurants also used to have signs saying 'We do not serve blacks'. Did the fact that they had a public policy make it right? The amazon policy is indeed discriminatory against folks that do not have credit cards, which by its nature discriminates against folks on the poor side of the tracks.

from here:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...88&postcount=8

Follow up:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=27

And:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=25

Do you work for Amazon?

You know, I have the capacity to disagree or agree with something without having vested interests.

A direct quote is when someone uses those words in that order, that is what happened.

But that's the problem, isn't i? You recapped what they said as a group, but you didn't quote directly.
So, yeah, I think I'm keeping my day job.

I am not sure why people are so offended. But if you are a long time member and pick on new posters, well what do you expect.

Keep fostering those fantasies and they'll evovle into a fullblown outlook on life.

Seriously, it's a logical fallacy. Something you're very prone to nurse.

The laugh is that my comments have made you write pages and pages. You will lose sleep and I will not.

Nope. Although it is night (morning, by now), I'm waiting for my long-time gf to come home from a festival. They had car troubles, so are stuck. I decided 8 hours ago that I'll stay awake if I could.

I'm still laughing

[AGB]

Seriously, Kevin, you need to stop sending me those PM's. I can't even see their purpose considering the contents.

I will post them here anyway, as there is no need to keep them a secret, so you might as well do the same from now on:

The headline read "you seem angry?" (see, that's a direct quote ...)

The contents read:

Originally Posted by Kevin R

Why so...

What about the poor OP who was slamned unjustly?

As is evident, there is no reason to respond by pm to something like that.

[Kevin R]

Originally Posted by montsnmags

Further distortion.

Post 48, poohbear makes a clear moderator request from everyone for politeness and civility.

Post 49, you continue with a personal attack.

Again, the only time an individual was publicly called out was when they offended a certain member.

What would have been constructive was to call out the folks who named the OP as lazy etc. and noted that they need to quit.

[Kevin R]

Originally Posted by AGB

Sheesh.

But here's the thing: You can't at one part of the argument claim that kindle is "global", yet have another premise going straight against it: That they need to be contacted directly, and that even if abroad, they have to go through the FTC, BBB (or whatever it's called over there).

But that's the problem, isn't i? You recapped what they said as a group, but you didn't quote directly.

Nope. Although it is night (morning, by now), I'm waiting for my long-time gf to come home from a festival. They had car troubles, so are stuck. I decided 8 hours ago that I'll stay awake if I could.

Again if you had read you would know that I was the only one to point to the FTC and BBB in several countries, not just US which was the point.

No it was not a recap, the direct quote by an individual was 'lazy' etc.

A good boyfriend would go and get them unstuck.

[AGB]

Originally Posted by Kevin R

Again if you had read you would know that I was the only one to point to the FTC and BBB in several countries, not just US which was the point.

Actually, you first suggested that the OP might not be from the US, then later, apparently she was from outside the US as that seemed to fit better with your moved goalpost.

No it was not a recap, the direct quote by an individual was 'lazy' etc.

You see, that is not a direct quote. Especially not when claim that the entire "group" (i.e. the sum of the individuals" uttered those words, apparently with one voice. That's a recap. You give some examples of terms used by individuals in a group. That's a recap, not quoting directly.


A direct quote is something you ascribe to an individual, a spokesperson who speaks on behalf of someone else, or you use to quote from, say, a press release or a book. You can't quote one word and ascribe that word to a mass of individuals as being a direct quote.

A good boyfriend would go and get them unstuck.

No, an intelligent boyfriend wouldn't be so stupid as to drive 450 kilometres when they won't leave the car at the festival parking grounds, as that would be utter idiocy.