The Vent and Rant Thread

[pdurrant]

#%@*&%#@ Textual differences!

OK, I'm trying to produce a really good illustrated edition of Kidnapped by Robert Louis Stevenson, rather like the illustrated edition of Kim by Rudyard Kipling that I did.

Kim was bad enough — American editions, lots of revisions to the text in the publication history. But there was a late-on definitive edition with the last changes made by Kipling, with no messing about (well, except that the US version of this edition Americanized some spellings - grrrr!).

With Kidnapped I though it was similar. First published in 1886, with various revisions along the way to the 1894 edition, with the 1895 edition including all the changes RLS made before he died.

But there are two 1895 editions by the English publishers, Cassel — the revision to the 1894 edition, and also a special "Edinburgh" edition. And there are LOTS of differences between the 1895 and the 1895 Edinburgh edition, especially in punctuation.

But OK, I proofed my text against a copy of the 1895 Edinburgh edition. A very tedious task. And then I do a final double-check, and I find a note on a plausible web site, saying that the Edinburgh Edition failed to include lots of changes that were in the normal 1895 edition! Argh...

So I go to the 1886 edition to check against both 1895 editions. And I find that the 1886 and 1895 punctuation is very similar, but the 1895 Edinburgh punctuation is very different - presumably corrections that got into the Edinburgh edition, but not the ordinary edition, you'd think... (& I certainly did...)

And then I think to check out the American 1886 Edition — aargh... on first glance, it looks like its punctuation matches the 1895 Edinburgh Edition!

So now I need to compare:
1886 UK version
1886 US version
1895 UK version
1895 Edinburgh version

and see which plausibly has the latest changes, and incorporate them into my edition. I have had a quick look at the Penguin Classics edition, and that hasn't even included some of RLS's corrections that made it into the UK 1895 edition, so that's not a lot of help!

All I want is a nice clean text, reflecting the last corrections the author made himself - it had been in print for 8 years by the time he died, so I think that is the best text to go for. I suspect that the 1895 UK edition is going to be cleanest, but there are definitely some changes to spelling in the 1895 Edinburgh edition that really out to be in my edition (and sometimes more than spelling - correctly using 'Scots' instead of 'Scotch' in several places.)

Wretched publishers of 115 years ago! Why couldn't they have got it right in the first place! Bah!


And then there's trying to explain all this in the blurb for my edition.....

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Juliette

Like they'd say: ma manco morta! (over my dead body). Fiat cars aren't much prized here, and pour cause! (The only car that we got and lasted, like, one year and half before reselling was the poor Panda- the earliest model; the inner roof just couldn't stay there .) So, a Citroen or a Ford. I loved the Fiesta.

The new CEO of Fiat is trying to change the corporate culture, and especially the work habits (or perhaps that should be non-work habits) of the folks that build the cars. It will be an uphill battle, as the work force has been used to an environment where things featherbedding and not bothering to show up because a soccer match was on were accepted practices.

Even some of the work force recognizes that changes are required, because it's global competition, Fiat has to compete on quality and price, and they can't rely on the Italian government to bail them out so they don't have to change. But only some of the work force, and since the changes will also require layoffs to bring staffing in line with demand, I wish him luck.
______
Dennis

[beppe]

Originally Posted by dsvick

Ok, call me slow but when did a half gallon of ice cream turn into a quart and half? For you metric people that would be "when 2 liters of ice cream turn into one and a half liters"?

I'm sure it's been a while, but I don't buy it very often...

A) The air when the ice cream melts escapes. Bye bye.
B) Imperial gallons?
C) somebody is trying a fast one on you

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by dsvick

Ok, call me slow but when did a half gallon of ice cream turn into a quart and half? For you metric people that would be "when 2 liters of ice cream turn into one and a half liters"?

I'm sure it's been a while, but I don't buy it very often...

Have you heard the Cowboy Junkies song Horse in the Country?

[Juliette]

Originally Posted by beppe

Fix It Again Tony

Exactly.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The new CEO of Fiat is trying to change the corporate culture, and especially the work habits (or perhaps that should be non-work habits) of the folks that build the cars. It will be an uphill battle, as the work force has been used to an environment where things featherbedding and not bothering to show up because a soccer match was on were accepted practices.

Even some of the work force recognizes that changes are required, because it's global competition, Fiat has to compete on quality and price, and they can't rely on the Italian government to bail them out so they don't have to change. But only some of the work force, and since the changes will also require layoffs to bring staffing in line with demand, I wish him luck.
______
Dennis

I understand that overabundance of strikes doesn't do miracles for business (I would be quite surprised over the football match question, as money is tight for people working in the sector, sometimes after years on and off cassa integrazione*), but still, if they did have cars with a decent structure (and not like the Punto I did my driver's license three years ago- basically an overgrown car audio system, with impossible seating for people over 1m65, feet size 41 getting stuck if not with the most inexistant sole, and a decent clutch, which was rather scary for a learner**) they might fare a lot better. For example, plenty of people would buy their cars instead of other Western/Western European brands (that are in the same price range).

In fact: it doesn't seem to me that their van line fares badly. They put a lot more effort there (cooperating with Peugeot and Citroen, for example) and the result is much more appreciated. And it shows in the streets. Erk.



*they're off work and receive wages on a certain percent (and under a certain amount), paid partly by the State so that the workers aren't fired (and they can consume, which is the bone of modern economy and they cost less than being on the dole). It doesn't always end up with return to full occupation for all parties, but for example my old nanny's son's old design industry did draw benefits during some tight times in the 1990s-early 2000s.

**it went off as I was trying to change the gear. Now, my father had been quite clear with the "don't force the clutch" rule, and the same goes for the teacher; plus it's really more comfortable to do it that way, so I don't think it was some weird manoeuvre on my side; and again: it should stay there. Off it went! Fortunately the teacher put it back while I attempted not to panic too much into a busy street.

[Juliette]

Originally Posted by beppe

For you girls it might be the only way out. They have a tendency to consider daughters as minions at their service. Expendable. And to be shaped and dressed like them. Cssss! .

I don't risk it much- basically, I've seen my mother phoning her mother every day of her life (until my surprisingly brilliant but bossy gran was taken by a TIA, ironically during one of these calls, and couldn't speak properly for the rest of her days). Puts one off doing that!

Plus my mother is scary in a lot of other unfunny (euphemism) ways. (I aim to make it her problems, though, because I've already done more than a daughter is supposed to do, or any other person including a therapist should- quoting the Beatles, with a little help from my friend, but little help means that the most of one's problem is, sadly, one's). So, uhm, I hope not!

On the other hand, I can see the point with all the great hugging families we got here, mother-dependance is often an obligated reality. EW. (and I've learned to keep away from mommy's boys too )

[beppe]

Originally Posted by Juliette

I don't risk it much- basically, I've seen my mother phoning her mother every day of her life (until my surprisingly brilliant but bossy gran was taken by a TIA, ironically during one of these calls, and couldn't speak properly for the rest of her days). Puts one off doing that!

Plus my mother is scary in a lot of other unfunny (euphemism) ways. (I aim to make it her problems, though, because I've already done more than a daughter is supposed to do, or any other person including a therapist should- quoting the Beatles, with a little help from my friend, but little help means that the most of one's problem is, sadly, one's). So, uhm, I hope not!

On the other hand, I can see the point with all the great hugging families we got here, mother-dependance is often an obligated reality. EW. (and I've learned to keep away from mommy's boys too )

You look quite ready for a free coupon of the Society. Any time. There are two great categories of formidable mothers, culture wise. Our, and the one depicted by Woody Allen in New York stories, speaking to him from the sky. For reasons that are too long to explain now, I think that our category can be reduced to reason by the Society approach. The other one leads straight away to Portnoy's Complaint.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Hmmm, I'll check it out. I've been thinking of a Ford Fusion Hybrid....

Hmmmm Arius doesn't seem to be available in U.S. either...

No, probably too small for the average American (I read the Auris wasn't available at all, but the Matrix is used instead).

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Made in the UK ....

That's the one!

And they had one in the showroom... I want one! I've always loved the lines of the car, since they introduced it in 2007. And with a full hybrid drive, it's almost irresistible, except that I'd have to pay for it somehow...

Originally Posted by Juliette

I don't risk it much- basically, I've seen my mother phoning her mother every day of her life (until my surprisingly brilliant but bossy gran was taken by a TIA, ironically during one of these calls, and couldn't speak properly for the rest of her days). Puts one off doing that!

Plus my mother is scary in a lot of other unfunny (euphemism) ways. (I aim to make it her problems, though, because I've already done more than a daughter is supposed to do, or any other person including a therapist should- quoting the Beatles, with a little help from my friend, but little help means that the most of one's problem is, sadly, one's). So, uhm, I hope not!

On the other hand, I can see the point with all the great hugging families we got here, mother-dependance is often an obligated reality. EW. (and I've learned to keep away from mommy's boys too )

Am I glad I never had such a mother/daughter relation. My mother was simply always available when the need was there, but not pushy. Makes a much healthier relationship, I think!

[Juliette]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Am I glad I never had such a mother/daughter relation. My mother was simply always available when the need was there, but not pushy. Makes a much healthier relationship, I think!

They were terrible. Funny thing my gran was a brilliant person with the rest of us (including me!).

[Sweetpea]

At one time, my mother lived next door to my brother. The one that was "pushy" at that time was my sister-in-law, when she needed a babysitter

They had their own lives and, while the door was always open, never forced themselves upon each other. They acted more like good friends, rather than close relatives.

[Juliette]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

At one time, my mother lived next door to my brother. The one that was "pushy" at that time was my sister-in-law, when she needed a babysitter

They had their own lives and, while the door was always open, never forced themselves upon each other. They acted more like good friends, rather than close relatives.

Sounds fantastic! That's more or less what happened with my aunt and gran (my aunt was also separated from her husband, so having both parents next door was a plus with very young children).

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

That's the one!

And they had one in the showroom... I want one! I've always loved the lines of the car, since they introduced it in 2007. And with a full hybrid drive, it's almost irresistible, except that I'd have to pay for it somehow...

If it drives like the Prius, and is as reliable, it'll be brill !!!!

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

If it drives like the Prius, and is as reliable, it'll be brill !!!!

brill?



Rant:

Why do I actually preorder? If the delivery time is over 1 month(!) after release any way.... And it wasn't "sold out" when I ordered it. If I hear that people who have ordered after me got that Kindle first, I'll cancel mine.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

So now I need to compare:
1886 UK version
1886 US version
1895 UK version
1895 Edinburgh version

It seems I do really need to do this. Luckily it seems that many of my previous changes were right. I 'just' need to work through chapter by chapter, comparing my current text against the 1895 UK text. Where they differ, I check the 1895 Edinburgh edition — if my text matches that, I then check against the 1886 UK and 1886 US editions. If the same change appears in either of those, I follow the 1895 UK edition, and change my text. Otherwise, I leave my text with as in the 1895 Edinburgh edition.

I hope in this way to get a text that is basically the 1895 UK edition, with any extra corrections that were included in the 1895 Edinburgh edition.

I think that's the best I can do, without access to the original manuscript, both of the book and any papers giving corrections.

A little more work than I'd anticipated!

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

It seems I do really need to do this. Luckily it seems that many of my previous changes were right. I 'just' need to work through chapter by chapter, comparing my current text against the 1895 UK text. Where they differ, I check the 1895 Edinburgh edition — if my text matches that, I then check against the 1886 UK and 1886 US editions. If the same change appears in either of those, I follow the 1895 UK edition, and change my text. Otherwise, I leave my text with as in the 1895 Edinburgh edition.

More tearing of hair! I think the US 1886 edition is a red herring. I think I should ignore that, and essentially follow whichever of the 1895 UK and 1895 Edinburgh editions deviates from the 1886 UK editions. And if they both deviate, but in different ways, I'm just going to have to pick the one that looks best to me.... and try to be as consistent as possible.

Aaarrrgghhhh..... I'm beginning to wish I hadn't started this! Still, it'll be worth it in the end, I hope.