Man! I hate self promoted books!

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by banjobama

I am also becoming more selective about what I read. If the synopsis has any grammar, spelling, or usage errors whatsoever, I won't buy the book and I probably won't download it even if it's free.

Indeed. If an author can't be arsed to get a mere paragraph or so that's supposed to sell me on the quality of their work absolutely perfect, what reason do I have to believe that the rest of the book, the part I can't see yet, will be better than unedited brain droolings?

[Kevin2960]

I read for pleasure, I'll put up with a few mistakes, even the odd slow or boring passage in the story, I'm poor at spelling so I won't always spot spelling errors etc,

I want a book I enjoy, and MOST I've read I HAVE enjoyed,

Self promoted books on MR have been great on the whole, just 2 I couldn't finish , and believe me I've read lots of them, as for Gems well there have been MANY so many that my TBR is growing, NOT shrinking despite reading more than ever before!

eReading has changed my life, maybe only in a small way, but I have access now to books anytime that before I could not access, and some of these exhalted authors are now dear friends thank's to MR, and THANKS to self promotion here onsite, wow, what an enlightened idea,


MORE books please, more self promotion after all if you have a talent, then yes you SHOULD flaunt it right ?

[banjobama]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Indeed. If an author can't be arsed to get a mere paragraph or so that's supposed to sell me on the quality of their work absolutely perfect, what reason do I have to believe that the rest of the book, the part I can't see yet, will be better than unedited brain droolings?

I should add that if the synopsis is especially terrible, I'll read a sample of the book just out of morbid curiosity.

[GlenBarrington]

Originally Posted by plumboz

Well then, I won't even try to entice you to read my compelling, enthralling, engrossing, chilling, hilarious, spine tingling, mind boggling, soon to be classic debut novel Kill Me, Kill Me, No, Not That Way! .

Why should such a literary pearl be wasted on such an unappreciative audience?

For the rest of you, however, please check out KM, KM, N, NTW at any of the finer online book emporiums. Regularly priced at $19.93 (that number has special significance that will become apparent to those who reach page 672), it is available for a short yet unspecified time for just $18.26 with coupon code LOVECRAFTLOVECHILD1993 (yep, there's that significant number again.)

But not you, Manheim Pike. No, no, not you.

If I get Boomerang, hate it, and then try to throw it away. . . What happens?

[GlenBarrington]

The point of my original post is starting to drift a bit. I'm not complaining about people who try to write and publish books. That is an effort to be applauded and encouraged.

Not unlike nude beaches. But like a nude beach, the theory is often more appealing than the actual practice.

My post was about the difference in writing quality between the promotional post and the book itself. If you can write a promotional post that I find compelling and interesting, why can't you write a book with the same characteristics?

My standards, especially for a new author, aren't that high. They ought to be relatively easy for a beginner who likes to read to achieve. (I DO hold established authors to a higher standard though, but presumably they have more experience and access to editors and other resources).

[Vintage Season]

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

The point of my original post is starting to drift a bit. I'm not complaining about people who try to write and publish books. That is an effort to be applauded and encouraged.

...

My post was about the difference in writing quality between the promotional post and the book itself. If you can write a promotional post that I find compelling and interesting, why can't you write a book with the same characteristics?

Yes, it was beginning to drift. My apologies for going with the tide, in the earlier post.

Occasionally, I suspect the promotional blurb for the book is written (or polished up) by someone other than the author. In those instances, the shift in quality is usually so apalling that I've also suspected more than one blurb writer was paid to do so.

When I read a blurb, ideally it should be just enough to capture my interest, but still undersell the author's true ability, so that I can be impressed once I am a few pages in.

Look at any fireworks store, for a good analogy. The stuff with eye-popping graphics, ribbons and shiny foil, and gimmickery out the wazoo? That is what sells to children... but you want the ones that don't rely on outer packaging, if you are putting on a neighborhood show.

- M.

[ficbot]

Originally Posted by Kevin2960

believe me I've read lots of them, as for Gems well there have been MANY so many that my TBR is growing, NOT shrinking despite reading more than ever before!

Then I wish you would start posting reviews or start a blog or something, as there is a real dearth of places to get honest reviews. People either only post about a good one (and never about the bad ones) or they are shilling for one specific author or book, or it is something like Nick's blog where he posts about indie books but none of them have been read or vetted by him and anyone who submits a press release gets their book put up.

I have a ton of Fictionwise crapola I purchased in the days of milking the micropay system that I regret now because I am about halfway through the pile and most of them are very mediocre. They never allowed reviews (OR samples) so I bought based on description and was often disappointed. Smashwords lets one sample, at least (most of the time). But there is just SO MUCH out there that it's hard to know where to start.

If you truly have read a lot of these books, you would be doing a real community service if you could review them, both the good ones and the bad ones.

[Hitech_luddite]

Well if you hate self-promoted books that much the obvious response is to avoid this forum.

I am not sure how much this has to do with self-promotion at all. I cannot tell you how many times I have read the blurb on the back of a book in a store to find it bore minimal resemblance in terms of both content and quality to the text inside. This is simply the difference between advertising and reality and is a feature of all contemporary business. Do you really expect the same juicy mouth-watering treat to be served up to you as depicted in a fast food restaurant window photograph? In all reality it will taste of cardboard. They have something to sell and need to entice you in, there is no difference with books.

At least with a self-published book the advertising copy is usually being written by someone who knows the book well.

Speaking personally I try to avoid words like compelling, thrilling and enticing. I don't even say that my book, The Gods of the Terminal, is funny because none of these are absolutes. Humor is a very subjective thing, what makes one person laugh leaves another cold. I am embarrassed to claim anything .. and that probably hits sales badly, but I am that kind of person.

Finally, why is everyone so down on Smashwords. Maybe it is because I publish with them I am more sympathetic, but their premium content does at least go through some quality checks. In contrast of the last two Feedbooks books I read, one had an incomplete last page and another only had the first chapter and a note telling you to go download the rest of the book in a different format from the author's website because he couldn't be bothered to convert the rest to epub.

I do review most of the content I read on Smashwords so feel free to check out my reviews if you want to find some of the better quality material there or avoid some of the worst.

[plumboz]

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

If I get Boomerang, hate it, and then try to throw it away. . . What happens?

I suppose, my dear Manheim, that it depends on whether you can really throw or simply claim you can throw. No way for me to know if the toss will result in the thing traveling swiftly through the air, making a nice return arc and smacking you in your discerning noggin, or if it will simply flutter a few ineffectual yards and tumble to the ground like a puffin on allergy meds.

We won't know until you try.

Ta!

[Sandra Edwards]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

There are certain words in self-promotion that turn me off instantly.

'Compelling' is one of them. 'Powerful' is another. Those words are routinely used by reviewers to mean "I got emotional about this book, but I can't say for sure why." When someone's saying it about their own book, that rings false. Tell me what your book is about, don't make me look for an estimate of its wattage!

I agree. There's nothing worse than an unknown author tooting their own horn. lol

[GraceKrispy]

Originally Posted by ficbot

Then I wish you would start posting reviews or start a blog or something, as there is a real dearth of places to get honest reviews. People either only post about a good one (and never about the bad ones) or they are shilling for one specific author or book,

I kind of wonder about this... I have rated all the smashwords books I've read on the site. So many times I have an idea of how I'm going to rate them, go to the page, and see only 5 star reviews. I feel like a party-pooper posting a 3 star review. Then I follow the links to the other reviewers' pages and notice they are fawning over every single book read. Then it makes me think- do people want honest reviews? How much do I trust the review of someone who has rated every book extremely favorably? Is smashwords really meant to be a "rah-rah" site where we encourage indie authors, without being honest about our feelings about their work?

Some things I think about

[ficbot]

I think honest reviews are important. To give an example of another niche community I belong to, a lot of regulars at my exercise video board find over time that someone appears who has exactly the same taste as they do. So if I read a review by a certain person, and she hates the dvd, I can be pretty sure I won't like it either. And if she loves it, it goes on my 'check it out' list. People need objective information so they can make informed decisions. Smashwords is not going to ever hit critical mass among the casual readers (as opposed to the hard-core people like us) unless some sort of crowd-sourcing kicks in to get the good stuff to the top. And that will hurt ALL authors, not just the ones with the shill reviews.

[Hitech_luddite]

I have yet to give a 5*review to any book on Smashwords. Like any cataloging system the 5* rating system popularized by recent editions of Windows, is reductive. There are a variety of criteria by which a book can be judged but in my experience the majority of people use only one - the plotline. They don't review the book, they rate the plot which leads to an unrealistically high rating much of the time.

The problem is deeper within society. Some years ago when I was looking at different marking systems around the world I saw the effects of grade inflation on academic work. To offer a hideous generalization, it is not that American academic work is superior to that in Europe but a top grade in Europe can be obtained from a much lower percentage than is customary in the U.S. Americans have narrowed the grading system and there is a general expectation that the average student will achieve a higher grade than the average in Europe. When people grow used to a narrow banding system where anything below 90% feels like abject failure they are going to generally rate higher in other areas of life.

Even when you try to apply a range of criteria the system is imperfect. Looking at the ratings on my own Calibre library am I really saying that Cory Doctorow is the literary equivalent of Charles Dickens? Stylistically they are worlds apart however the ending of Old Curiosity Shop, much praised in its time, does nothing for me, whereas that of For the Win brings a tear to my eye. Taking all the differences into account, they rate roughly equivalently in terms of my emotional engagement and pleasure which the books brought to me overall.

People generally have unrealistic expectations. My own work, The Gods of the Terminal, is a slight thing. It started as a short story and became a novella. I wouldn't put it out there if I thought it had no merits. There are some observations that anyone who has ever done telephone tech support may recognize and some satire of the modern financial sector. However in publishing it I do not believe that I am hugely expanding the literary canon in some way. Most people think that they will be the next J K Rowlings though. For that reason they expect all 5* ratings. If you have a wide group of friends, and access to something like Facebook, it isn't too difficult to gain a flood of such ratings if you really want to.

This isn't something unique to Smashwords, any of the book or technology selling sites are potential victims to abuse of their rating system, including reviews which are posted by employees of the publisher/producer and are designed only to raise the book in the overall rankings.

If you look at Smashwords reviews the majority of people write little more than a line, yet it is the review not the rating which tells the full story. I try to never write less than a paragraph, sometimes several, and when I read the reviews I look for people who have taken into account things like dialog, characterization, imagery and weigh their opinions higher than those who just say how much they enjoyed the story.

I agree, it is not easy to write a negative review. We humans are fragile things and our egos are easily hurt. I wrote a review the other week that took me half a day because I wanted to be balanced and reflect the strengths and weaknesses of the book and because it had received nothing but praise from all the other reviewers. Within an hour the author had unpublished the book. I felt extremely guilty. All literary opinions are subjective and this book which many others had enjoyed was now unavailable to anyone. I like to think the author is working on correcting the myriad of typographical and formatting errors which I had highlighted and he will in time republish it but I don't know for sure. Perhaps he was just angry and upset.

I don't get any pleasure from saying negative things about a text, quite the opposite. I do think I have a duty to be honest and ego-flattering, whilst desirable, doesn't help anyone learn or write a better book.

[tbrookside]

Many books on Smashwords have 30-50% free preview samples.

With that kind of preview available, no one should end up buying any books there other than books they actually like.

The set of reviewers is self-selected in such an environment and we should expect the system to lean heavily to positive reviews, even before we take into consideration psychological factors.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by MartinParish

The publishing industry has never done a very good job of choosing books. Many of the books they choose don't make money; many of the ones they reject again and again eventually become bestsellers.

Since they became bestsellers they were not rejected by all publishers. Also I think very few books that gets rejected a lot ends up as best sellers. There are some famous examples but really how many are there?

As a reader the publishing industry do a good job selecting books that are readable and well written. Since I do not have time to read all the books I want to read that are published the traditional way I do not see why I should take the chance to read something self-published.