PRS-505 I have given up on Sony - Kindle 3 ordered

Originally Posted by matt314159

have there been many complaints in the kindle forum from users complaining about plastic breaking or something? Seems to me it should be fine, and keep things lighter weight, to boot? Seems to me the important part of each unit (the screen) would be equally delicate across all groups, leading you to baby both, regardless of what material the case is.

Don't forget you can sideload public domain books on the kindle as well, it might not do epub, but calibre does away with that problem right quick by converting them pretty darn well.

Many, if not most, of these guys are just repeating "sound bites" they have heard from other sources. It is like repeating what a political commentator says without really checking the facts yourself and making up your OWN mind. I've owned the PRS505, PRS300, PRS600, and PRS900. The best hands down was the 505. Sony Readers are definitely built solid, but there is a lot more plastic in their cases than these guys will admit too, especially around the edges. Glossy painted plastic is not metal. At any rate, the new Kindle DXG is rather well built. Older Kindles were not as well built. The new K3s look to be following in the better built standard of the DXG.

As far as screens, the 505 was/is the best of the Sony Readers. The 700 sucked horribly. The 600 is too glossy and faded for prolonged reading, for me that is. The 900 had a better screen than the 600 and a much better design. But it was still lagging in contrast and still had too much glare. I still own my 300 which has a screen close to the 505, but smaller. If Sony introduces a Pearl screen without a degrading touch layer, they will have a good reader to compete again. I would love to see a PRS900 with a Pearl screen and a non-touch interface for selecting and entering text.

The touch screen concept seemed like a really cool idea. But I found that using your finger was ill effective. Pretty much had to use a fingernail and even then it was slow and difficult to highlight the exact text I wanted to highlight. The stylus gave more control, but didn't improve the speed, and highlighting was still somewhat flaky as after you lifted the stylus from the screen it would occasionaly change which words were selected. So I finally gave up on e-Ink screens with an added touch layer. It just degrades the contrast and adds glare. Sony should abandon this concept unless they can put the touch layer beneath the e-Ink screen. The Kindles 5-way mouse actually works better for me.

As far as updating firmware goes: My PRS300 has been in release for almost a year. The latest firmware for it is version 1.0.00.18160. That is rather typical of Sony Readers in that Sony refuses to refine the firmware. Amazon is constantly updating the firmware for Kindles. Many other manufacturers follow Amazon in that regard.

Now let us talk bookstores and software for transferring books to a reader. Sony is the worst of the lot in both instances. Their bookstore is crappy and difficult to navigate. Their Sony Reader Store application is horribly written in what looks like Adobe Flash, does not follow Windows or Mac conventions, and really sucks when it comes to transferring books and files to a Reader. The phrase, "don't use Sony's software use calbre instead" is often repeated among Sony Reader owners on this forum for a good reason! Amazon and others have a much cleaner, more refined, easier to use store and reader management software.

Normally the Japanese kick our American backsides when it comes to electronics. But this is one case where an American company has kicked the Japanese electronic firms in the backside. (Apple is another such case with their iPad.) I think the Japanese execs have long since lost touch with the pulse of American buyers, so Amazon just might have awakened them a bit. I hope so because I would like to see some stiff competition to Amazon from Sony. But I'm afraid it won't happen and that Sony will soon cease making readers either by choice or by the market place.

[ebookapps]

Sony is laggish with firmware upgrades, so this is valid point to complain about, but check out our firmware http://www.ebookapplications.com.
It installs by just copying file to the device's memory and loads as a optional boot, so you can choose during the device boot to load original firmware or alternative firmware.
It supports lot more ebook formats than original and has dictionaries support as well as better support for PDFs, custom fonts, flexible page-view settings. So check it out before making final decision and criticizing Sony devices.

[wolfing]

I *love* my PRS-600, and would never think of switching it for a Kindle at any price, except for one glaring problem... no firmware updates. It seriously feels like Sony just abandoned the e-book market (and my guess is that with the new pricing levels, they will officially abandon it). My next reader if/when this one breaks will not be a Sony, as they have showed they don't support their devices.

Originally Posted by ebookapps

Sony is laggish with firmware upgrades, so this is valid point to complain about, but check out our firmware http://www.ebookapplications.com.
It installs by just copying file to the device's memory and loads as a optional boot, so you can choose during the device boot to load original firmware or alternative firmware.
It supports lot more ebook formats than original and has dictionaries support as well as better support for PDFs, custom fonts, flexible page-view settings. So check it out before making final decision and criticizing Sony devices.

Oh, sounds interesting. If I install it, will the reader support full justification in ePub? And, what would I lose from the original firmware if I switch? (battery charge duration, double-tap dictionary, etc)?

[OrcaBlue]

When Apple came out with Ipod, a large group of people rushed out and buy it. However, that didn't make the IPOD, the only mp3 players in town. We still have MS Zune, Creative Zen, Sony MP3 players, and many others.

One company will not control the entire market. Each has it's own fans. Eventually, ereader market will be the same. You will have those that are really cheap and those that are really the must have. However, if you asked many people today; not everyone own an ipod. I certain don't.

Two or three years from now, it doesn't really matter what device you have. You will still be able to read ebooks on any devices out there. I personally think that the standard that adopted by the industry is far more important than the device itself.

My take is that Google, Apple, B&N, Borders, and SONY won't be push over by Amazon so easily. Even the current juggernault, APPLE, can't control the mp3 market. How can Amazon does something that APPLE can't?

[matt314159]

Originally Posted by wolfing

Oh, sounds interesting. If I install it, will the reader support full justification in ePub? And, what would I lose from the original firmware if I switch? (battery charge duration, double-tap dictionary, etc)?

I use the ebookapplications software on my 300, so maybe I can give you at least a partial answer. It's pretty great, for the most part. The software resides alongside the Sony firmware. When the device starts up, it gives you an option to go into the sony FW or the ebookapplications firmware. From within the ebookapps firmwrae, there's an option to go reboot to sony firmware.

You just unzip the folders to the root of the device, and restart, and voila, new firmware to play around with. To uninstall---you guessed it---delete the folders.

It does bring justification to ePub files, though I notice on the book I'm currently reading, it messes with the formatting a little so there's a tradeoff, I guess.

Some other things I like are the ability to choose between like 7 or 8 different font sizes, three different font faces, the ability to rotate the device to landscape in either direction (so you can hold it and change pages with either your right or left hand), not to mention it now has a dictionary.

I also notice page turns are quicker than the sony firmware, when you are using larger fonts. Small fonts actually seem to take longer.

Let's see, what else? There is a clock, but so far, for me, it's never worked right. Overall, I'd say that when this is polished, and ported over to the likes of the 600, it will be very good. Not sure how the 600 port would go with the touch screen options, to me it seems it would need a full re-write instead of just porting it over, but I like what I've seen so far. It's free, easy to install, easy to uninstall, makes no changes to sony's own file system...a very good addition to my 300.

Oh, I also like that the ebook apps firmware makes the text go all the way to the edges of the screen, it doesn't leave much of a margin at all...helps you shoehorn a few more words a page that way, probably.

[ebookapps]

Originally Posted by wolfing

Oh, sounds interesting. If I install it, will the reader support full justification in ePub? And, what would I lose from the original firmware if I switch? (battery charge duration, double-tap dictionary, etc)?

Yes, you will have the full justification in ePub and you will not loose anything in the original firmware since you can optionally always load it at any time. Alternative firmware installs just by copying files to the internal memory so you can always delete these files and have a clean device again.
We do not support PRS–600 yet, but it is coming shortly. We do have our own dictionary support,which will be double tap on 600, but once again you will not lose your original software if you need it.

[ebookapps]

@matt314159 thank you! You made a better job explaining than me

By the way check the latest version which we released yesterday. We have customized page borders, spacing between lines, custom fonts (you can use ttf fonts from your computer for example) and, yes, dictionaries.

[MrT-Man]

Originally Posted by carld

Are they? I haven't read that anywhere. Do you have a link?

From the Wall Street Journal:

Amazon's price-cutting won't be cheap. The company said last year that its Kindle manufacturing costs were "significantly higher" than an estimate from iSuppli of $185.49. Costs likely have come down since then, and not offering cell-network access reduces costs as well. Still, it is a good bet the company is losing money at $139 a unit.

[carld]

About the quality of builds... my K1 is a tank. I've had it for over 2 years, spilled taco sauce all over the keyboard (damn you Taco Bell!), dropped it numerous times, and it's still working fine.

[mikij]

Originally Posted by ebookapps

We do not support PRS–600 yet, but it is coming shortly. We do have our own dictionary support,which will be double tap on 600, but once again you will not lose your original software if you need it.

This will be cool. I hardly wait.

Please make a big announcement. I don't want to miss it.

[m-reader]

Originally Posted by mikij

I also found somewhere that K3 will be sold below price. However, I won't go with them. Cheap plastic case is not very robust and I don't like this kind of stuff. Why putting all our eggs in one (Amazon) basket when we know we can buy or download for free (PD) books we can read on our Sony or Kobo or whatever reader.
OK,OK...Sony has the best case, decent screen contrast and (at least PRS-600) touch screen. They always go for quality (but their Store is not well equipped). And their readers are open for many formats.

If your only measurement of quality of a device is the material the housing is made of, then you may well be right. I had a play with the new DX and it seems pretty robust to me. The keyboard does feel a bit cheap though, but that's about the only thing that sticks out.
WTR formats, that's not a very strong argument. Kindle reads non-DRM PRC/Mobi format as well and there are many books in this format. I would have preferred to see it support ePUB but IMHO it's not a biggie.
Most people don't have a very strong brand loyalty. At the end of the day, most of these devices come out of the same factory sweat shop in China. What matters is the bang for your buck, and I personally thing that Amazon is kicking everybody's pants at the moment.
On one hand, this is a very bad news indeed for competition, especially smaller players in the market. On the other hand it may serve as a proverbial kick in the backside for others to start diversifying their products. The e-reader market was getting a bit stale - everybody was pushing the same product.
Sorry for going off topic a bit there . To summarise, I hope Sony steps up their game, Amazon not all good/not all bad.

[jcatl]

Interestingly enough . . .

Sony refuses to get caught up in a price war with Kindle, intends to compete on quality

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/30/s...kindle-intend/

What is Sony's market share in this arena? This sounds like "head in the sand" arrogance from Sony. Yes, my Daily Edition features very good build quality but at the end of the day the touchscreen ruins it for me, and that seems to be Sony's direction.

And again, as has been mentioned, their store is a poor alternative to Amazon and B&N.

Finally, who is Sony's market for these devices? The average consumer is interested in reading and being able to buy books while on the go, and comfortably read them anywhere. This forum is very useful but frequented by a niche of much more educated users. What is it that Sony thinks they can do with respect to quality that will outdo Amazon's increasing dominance in the market?

Way more people buy Hondas than BMWs because in their minds both cars do the same thing, but one does it for a fraction of the cost. Sony needs to remember that their target market is the average consumer.

[carld]

Originally Posted by MrT-Man

From the Wall Street Journal:

Amazon's price-cutting won't be cheap. The company said last year that its Kindle manufacturing costs were "significantly higher" than an estimate from iSuppli of $185.49. Costs likely have come down since then, and not offering cell-network access reduces costs as well. Still, it is a good bet the company is losing money at $139 a unit.

But that's really just speculation still. Component costs can change dramatically in a year. Barring any hard facts I think it's just as reasonable to say Amazon is making a profit on the wifi Kindle.

Originally Posted by matt314159

I use the ebookapplications software on my 300, so maybe I can give you at least a partial answer. It's pretty great, for the most part. The software resides alongside the Sony firmware. When the device starts up, it gives you an option to go into the sony FW or the ebookapplications firmware. From within the ebookapps firmwrae, there's an option to go reboot to sony firmware.

You just unzip the folders to the root of the device, and restart, and voila, new firmware to play around with. To uninstall---you guessed it---delete the folders.

It does bring justification to ePub files, though I notice on the book I'm currently reading, it messes with the formatting a little so there's a tradeoff, I guess.

Some other things I like are the ability to choose between like 7 or 8 different font sizes, three different font faces, the ability to rotate the device to landscape in either direction (so you can hold it and change pages with either your right or left hand), not to mention it now has a dictionary.

I also notice page turns are quicker than the sony firmware, when you are using larger fonts. Small fonts actually seem to take longer.

Let's see, what else? There is a clock, but so far, for me, it's never worked right. Overall, I'd say that when this is polished, and ported over to the likes of the 600, it will be very good. Not sure how the 600 port would go with the touch screen options, to me it seems it would need a full re-write instead of just porting it over, but I like what I've seen so far. It's free, easy to install, easy to uninstall, makes no changes to sony's own file system...a very good addition to my 300.

Oh, I also like that the ebook apps firmware makes the text go all the way to the edges of the screen, it doesn't leave much of a margin at all...helps you shoehorn a few more words a page that way, probably.

I'm glad it worked on your 300. It looks like crap on my 300:

• Takes forever to boot up
• Takes at least 2 minutes to open an average ePub
• ePubs look more like a non-formatted text file than an ePub
• Does not display all the characters correctly making the text difficult to read
• It cannot find pre-loaded books

Their concept is nice and the feature set is great. But this software is not even close to being alpha, much less beta released. It needs a LOT of work and by competent programmers. I wouldn't waste time installing it yet.

[shanghaichica]

I haven't given up on Sony at all. I love my prs-300 and if I could only have one device I would chose the sony. I am however most likely going to buy the kindle 3. For the price, it would be a crime not to buy it. Plus it does have some features/advantages that my prs-300 doesnt. They are not deal breaking but for £109 they are worth it.