New Kindle with WiFi announced

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

But "amazon become the clear winner", is not something i see happening anytime soon.

No, not really "the winner". They're certainly the leader when it comes to English language books, but that's it so far.

[fjtorres]

Uh, guys, if I may be so crass as to point out the thread is supposed to be about the release of new Kindle hardware not about library lending or epub support?

Got you attention?

Okay, as somebody who owns both a Kindle and two Adobe ePub readers, I don't *care* about ePub or Mobi.
I do care about a healthy, *competitive* ebook reader industry so when I get around to buying my next reader I'll actually have a *choice*.

So riddle me this oh wise pontificators: how does it help *anybody* if Amazon, which controls 50% or more of the US reader market, which in itself consists of 60-70% of the world market (and China is 21%, btw); how does it help anybody if Amazon squeezes out the remaining hardware competitors by enabling ePub on Kindle?

Right now, folks more interested in library book access buy ePub based readers. Id Amazon matches this there is one less reason to buy a competing product. Some of those products don't have much market share to spare anyway; take away even a fraction and they'll be history. This is supposed to be good for *us*?

Right now, folks interested in non-english commercial ebooks are best served by regional ebookstores huddling under the adobe DRM umbrella. Many have ties to locally supplied, rebadged generic readers that are already going to have a hard time competing with an ePub-free Kindle. Let kindle loose under the umbrella and they'll be decimated the world over. This is good for whom?

I'm not looking to start a fight or anything but right now we have the makings of a decently balanced market between Amazon lock-in on one side and Adobe lock-in on the other. As long as B&N doesn't screw up, nobody will end up with monopoly power, competition between the camps will flourish and we tthe buyers will have a choice.

To me the whole format debate is about insecure people who want *their* personal preferences *validated* and not about any rational merit behind either format. One size does *not* fit all. We are *never* going to have a universal ebook format just we do not have a universal digital music format. This is *good*.
No, it is *great*.
We as consumers need choices we can make ourselves.

Wishing Amazon were even more formidable than they already are?
Do you really want a monopoly?

I don't.

The new Kindles (the topic of the thread) are going to put tremendous pressure on the second tier vendors. Some have already been squeezed out of North America. The UK looks to be next now that new WiFi K3s are cheaper than most *used* readers in the UK. (There's an active thread elsewhere on this.)

Next up is Japan; the new kindles support cyrillic and Japanese text.
(Now we know why Sony is trying to bring their readers back into the japanese market.)

Amazon is purposefully ignoring a sector of the market. It is *their* choice. It is a quiet truism of business that some customers aren't worth having. Amazon is clearly stating that *at this time* they have no interest in selling readers to people who are not interested in buying ebooks from them. Not if they can help it. Because each Kindle bought by a library reader is one Kindle that may not be available to a paying customer.

The fact that Amazon is avoiding this market has *helped* their competition. Sony is trying to ride libraries into relevance. Take this "advantage" away and Sony fades even more. If Amazon wanted to kill their competitors regardless of the harm to their business it would be trivially easy for them to enable Mobi-timed DRM (and only timed-DRM) on Kindle. They own Mobi, after all. Thankfully, they choose not to.

Amazon already controls a quarter to a third of the world-wide eink reader market. And you guys want them to be even *more* aggressive?
Dudes!
Why?!

Oh, never mind; I'm out of here. I need to go mow the lawn...

(Too bad I found no takers for the adoption ploy.)

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Truth

I think those declaring Amazon's victory are still forgetting something key: the older, nontechnical demographic. Shocking as it may be, there are still many people who actually walk into places commonly called "stores". In these "stores", they buy things, books for example. For the people who still shop in this manner, the Kindle is not the ereader they are likely to choose. Here in Canada, Chapters & Indigo have the Kobo ereader in stores to play with. In the States, B&N will have the same thing. Amazon lacks this presence, and I know that I am not the only person who doesn't want to buy an ereader until playing with one.

On another note, I work at a small college in one of Canada's largest cities, yet ereaders are still barely on most of my (voraciously reading) coworkers' radars. I have shown some of them the Kindle, and while they thought it was neat, they wanted to experience one before making a purchase. At least one of them has since bought a Kobo simply because it was available to touch, hold, and purchase immediately.

If the Kindle isn't on everyone's radar yet, how can the format wars be over?

they are available at Target

Originally Posted by jswinden

Sad but humorous how these people won't listen to what you are trying to tell them. I guess they are so wrapped up in their arguments that they have tunnel vision!

Thanks again!

that's why I occasionally use big red letters

Originally Posted by Graham

Kindlekitten, please don't shout at me. First follow the thread and understand that my comment "Even if it means those publishers' books will only be available to you from a single vendor?" was in reply to jswinden's one about all publishers switching to the Amazon DRM.

That DRM system is currently only available from Amazon, a single vendor.

Yes, we're all perfectly aware that you can buy books in other formats from other vendors for your Kindle, but that's not what we were talking about.

Graham

I am not yelling at you per-se, but there is an ovewhelming perception that books for the Kindle can only be purchased at Amazon, and are not available from libraries. big red letters get peoples attention.

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

You're mixing the two features. The poster asked about text to speech, which is the robot voice without pauses. Yes, separately, you can buy audiobooks and play them on Kindle, but you can buy audiobooks and play them on many devices, without buying a Kindle. I wouldn't even consider getting a Kindle for audiobook-playing. It holds only a few audiobooks at a time. There's not enough storage. Everybody and his brother owns an MP3 player. If you already have one of those, there's no point considering a Kindle for audiobooks. You might want the text to speech, despite the poor quality, but that's a separate issue. And iPad also has a VoiceOver feature to consider, as the poster is considering an iPad.

no I'm not. that's why I said tha the text to speech function was robotic, but an audiobook download would be the same as a music download. and not everyone and their brother has an MP3.

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Most people are not able or willing to remove DRM and/or format shift. So, for those that want to read library ebooks a Kindle is not an option for the most part.

However, I'll say it a third time... people that buy Kindle's are people that were buying NEW books and never go to a library except perhaps to do research.

BOb

and I will continue to repeat... it is a common FALLACY that library books cannot go on a Kindle. when it is brought up, I will argue it. and for the record I was going to the library right up until I got my Kindle

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So where has she been hiding lately?

she checks in periodically, lurks occasionally. terribly missed but having a blast being a Grandma

[Josieb1]

Orignially posted by Maggie Leung - You're mixing the two features. The poster asked about text to speech, which is the robot voice without pauses. Yes, separately, you can buy audiobooks and play them on Kindle, but you can buy audiobooks and play them on many devices, without buying a Kindle. I wouldn't even consider getting a Kindle for audiobook-playing. It holds only a few audiobooks at a time. There's not enough storage. Everybody and his brother owns an MP3 player. If you already have one of those, there's no point considering a Kindle for audiobooks. You might want the text to speech, despite the poor quality, but that's a separate issue. And iPad also has a VoiceOver feature to consider, as the poster is considering an iPad.

Yes Maggie you are right I was asking about text to speech. I already own over 200 audiobooks but have 100's of books which have not been recorded which would have been lovely to listen to if the Kindle speech option was good enough.

I listen to my audiobooks on my iphone, I adore my iphone, I use it to surf the net more than my pc, and now I can read books on it as well, in fact I am reading one on my iphone now, in ibooks, just to try it out, I am thinking a ipad may be the better option for me, eventually. It all depends on what Sony do next.

A Kindle, while a really tempting price, just has too many negatives for me. I want my Sony Touch combined with my iphone tbh

[Graham]

Originally Posted by jswinden

Sad but humorous how these people won't listen to what you are trying to tell them. I guess they are so wrapped up in their arguments that they have tunnel vision!

Thanks again!

I tracked down DesertGrandma's guide to using library books on the Kindle, and it seems to involve using a python script, and then only if the library has mobi format books. That may work for tech-savvy users, and in the US, but here in the UK we have libraries full of ADE ePub books, not mobi.

I suspect the average Kindle buyer won't want to/know how to use a python script, far less get involved in cracking the Adobe DRM required by some of the less legitimate methods.

So I think it's fair to say that in the UK at least our libraries don't support Kindle users.

Graham

[Josieb1]

Originally posted by Pilotbob - So, you can't buy eBooks for iBook anywhere but from Apple.

Can I just point out that I am currently reading a book on my iphone, using ibooks, which was bought from Fictionwise, and has no DRM, I haven't removed it, it didn't have any in the first place. The same book is on my Sony Touch as well.

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

no I'm not. that's why I said tha the text to speech function was robotic, but an audiobook download would be the same as a music download. and not everyone and their brother has an MP3.

Please read the poster's question again. She says she has about 200 audiobooks and is asking how good Kindle's text to speech is. If someone has 200 audiobooks, what are the odds that she doesn't have an MP3 player?

I'll leave it at that and bow out. My interest was in answering the poster's question, not in pointlessly arguing with someone else.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Truth

and I will continue to repeat... it is a common FALLACY that library books cannot go on a Kindle. when it is brought up, I will argue it. and for the record I was going to the library right up until I got my Kindle

Yes, but, it is a bit disingenuous to say the above when getting library ebooks on the Kindle involves breaking the law, the DMCA, at least in the US. Perhaps it is legal in other countries.

Even if you want to argue that it is not technically breaking the law seeing the Library of Congresses exceptions to the DMCA when you talk to people about running python scripts their eyes glaze over... remember these are the same people that though AOL was the internet 5 years ago.

BOb

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

Can I just point out that I am currently reading a book on my iphone, using ibooks, which was bought from Fictionwise, and has no DRM. The same book is on my Sony Touch as well.

Sigh... sure you can't point it out, but you aren't telling me anything I didn't know. You could read that same book on your Kindle just as easily.

Also, you are grasping at straws. Most mainstream ebooks are DRM protected. ANY DRM FREE ebook you can read on ANY device Kindle included. You are actually proving my point.

BOb

[=X=]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

Just one question about the one feature that has got me interested in a kindle, the book speaking function. Is it on the existing Kindle, and if so can you chose a voice type, ie. male/female, and does it sound okay? I am a big audiobook fan, I have about 200, so the option of having all my books read to me is very very tempting.

Yes and Yes

TTS does not compare to dramatized audiobooks. However if you listen to dry books like some of the ones I read they are comparable, without the syntheseised sound. The Kindle is quite good compared to some of the others TTS I've listend too. The only nuance is the occastional pause that is caused by and under powered CPU. I'm hopping that the new kindle has a better processor.


This is probably one of the best features for me. I really like the TTS and use it daily and many here have chimed in that they too love this feature, and like always just as many said boo to that feature.

What I like is you can TTS any book you are reading. You can play audio through the built in speaker, or through a 3.5" audio jack. (more on that later).

It is easy to pause and what I really like about it is you can pickup reading right where the audio left off, then play the audio right where you left off reading. Then if I read from my phone, the wispersync feature will place the page location to the correct spot and I can continue to listen to the audio without having to find where I left off.

This is real convent when for my daily commute. I bought a $10 FM transmitter. During my commute, I hook it up to my Kindle and play the book and listen to it on my car speaker. Then if I read at lunch (either on the Kindle or my phone) I can then resume listing to the book right where I left off.

=X=

[TheJohnNewton]

Originally Posted by jswinden

Both Sony and Amazon fail miserably in having their readers available for the public to play with them in a brick and mortar store. Amazon especially since they don't have a brick and mortar presence...

Kindles are widely available in Target stores.

[Josieb1]

Originally posted by Pilotbob - Also, you are grasping at straws. Most mainstream ebooks are DRM protected. ANY DRM FREE ebook you can read on ANY device Kindle included. You are actually proving my point.

I am not 'grasping at straws', i was quite excited this morning when I saw the Kindle news for the UK, but the more I look into it, the more negatives it has. An ipad is 6 times more expensive than the kindle, but for me thats where my money would go.

Thats why its called consumer choice.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

why do you folks refuse to understand that you can get library books on your kindle?

Well technically you can, but...

You have to have to either a) have a library that offers Mobi books (which are fewer and fewer) and then hack them or you have to b) remove DRM from PDF ebooks or remove DRM and then convert ePub ebooks. That's beyond the scope of things for most general users.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by jswinden

Very valid points. I'm personally just speculating about what if Amazon wins the war. I personally just want the war over so we can move on to enjoying whatever reader in whatever universal format. And quite frankly, there might never be a clear winner--the worst case scenario.

Both Sony and Amazon fail miserably in having their readers available for the public to play with them in a brick and mortar store. Amazon especially since they don't have a brick and mortar presence. Sony because the retail brick and mortar stores that stock their readers tend to not know much about them and tend to not have them turned on. Best Buy in my area for example has Nooks on display and running, but their Sony Readers are not displayed like that. B&N obviously displays their Nooks, but even they didn't really seem to have many answers to my questions. They all need to improve in this area of public education.

in case you missed it, I'll say it again... they are at TARGET!

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Uh, guys, if I may be so crass as to point out the thread is supposed to be about the release of new Kindle hardware not about library lending or epub support?

this is Mobil Read and you are surprised that a thread has gone off topic?

Originally Posted by Graham

I tracked down DesertGrandma's guide to using library books on the Kindle, and it seems to involve using a python script, and then only if the library has mobi format books. That may work for tech-savvy users, and in the US, but here in the UK we have libraries full of ADE ePub books, not mobi.

I suspect the average Kindle buyer won't want to/know how to use a python script, far less get involved in cracking the Adobe DRM required by some of the less legitimate methods.

So I think it's fair to say that in the UK at least our libraries don't support Kindle users.

Graham

sorry did not notice that you were in the UK. once again, was only focusing on the library issue

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

Please read the poster's question again. She says she has about 200 audiobooks and is asking how good Kindle's text to speech is. If someone has 200 audiobooks, what are the odds that she doesn't have an MP3 player?

I'll leave it at that and bow out. My interest was in answering the poster's question, not in pointlessly arguing with someone else.

was just responding to the query about the voice quality. did not see until her follow up post about the amount of audiobooks. many people read these threads for general info. getting the information out there correctly quite often trumps answering the specific question. for instance the amount of people who are convinced that Kindle books are ONLY available at Amazon.

[Josieb1]

Originally posted by -X- Yes and Yes

TTS does not compare to dramatized audiobooks. However if you listen to dry books like some of the ones I read they are comparable, without the syntheseised sound. The Kindle is quite good compared to some of the others TTS I've listend too. The only nuance is the occastional pause that is caused by and under powered CPU. I'm hopping that the new kindle has a better processor.


This is probably one of the best features for me. I really like the TTS and use it daily and many here have chimed in that they too love this feature, and like always just as many said boo to that feature.

What I like is you can TTS any book you are reading. You can play audio through the built in speaker, or through a 3.5" audio jack. (more on that later).

It is easy to pause and what I really like about it is you can pickup reading right where the audio left off, then play the audio right where you left off reading. Then if I read from my phone, the wispersync feature will place the page location to the correct spot and I can continue to listen to the audio without having to find where I left off.

This is real convent when for my daily commute. I bought a $10 FM transmitter. During my commute, I hook it up to my Kindle and play the book and listen to it on my car speaker. Then if I read at lunch (either on the Kindle or my phone) I can then resume listing to the book right where I left off.

Thank you.