V3 in my hand - Page 10

ibat · 10-02-2007, 02:45 PM

@LVD

Great news! Can we order them from Europe? I'm interested in getting one. How is the i18n, is there sufficient documentation in English? Would I understand the SDK w/o Russian background?

dameuna · 10-03-2007, 11:24 AM

After reading through all of the threads on the Hamlin, I think I found some of the answers to my questions. I didn't realize that "A4' is the rest of the world's equivalent to U.S. letter size of 8.5 x 11 inch. So now I see why this was a hot topic.

Zdevil: When I asked about wrapping of text lines, I meant the splitting of a long line by inserting a newline between words. Formats like TXT and DOC allow the viewing program to do this, but I don't think that this is possible with PDF. I think that the line length is set by the PDF. and that the viewing program can only mess with the size of the font to try and fit the line within the screen. But it looks like the V3 can remove the empty border on the left and right side of the page.

MikeF74 · 10-03-2007, 11:33 AM

Here is an image from Wikipedia that shows the difference between A4 and US Letter and Legal sizes. We always have to do things different here.

If you look at your printer or scanner, you will notice that there is a little extra room in the paper feed tray and scanner bed size. This is because most of these devices are made to the slightly wider/shorter A4 specification.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lustration.png

I never realized until I saw this picture that the various A-sizes came from the successive cutting in half of a larger standard size of paper... the A0.

DaleDe · 10-03-2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeF74

I never realized until I saw this picture that the various A-sizes came from the successive cutting in half of a larger standard size of paper... the A0.

This is also basically true of US sizes (except for legal). A size (letter) is doubled on one edge to get B size which is doubled on one edge to get C size, etc. There is also 1/2 A.

Dale

DaleDe · 10-03-2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dameuna

Zdevil: When I asked about wrapping of text lines, I meant the splitting of a long line by inserting a newline between words. Formats like TXT and DOC allow the viewing program to do this, but I don't think that this is possible with PDF. I think that the line length is set by the PDF. and that the viewing program can only mess with the size of the font to try and fit the line within the screen. But it looks like the V3 can remove the empty border on the left and right side of the page.

It is possible in PDF if the PDF is tagged. It is called re-flowing the document. Adobe readers support reflow but most of the other readers do not which is why you said what you said. It is even possible to tag a PDF file after the fact although best results are achieved if it is done at the time the file is created. Tags add smarts about the text to aid in the reflow. Adobe has a content product that is used with ActiveSync on a PC to post tag documents moved to a PPC device so that they can be reflowed. I have seen a product for Palm devices that claims to reflow documents even if they are not tagged but I do not know how well it works.

Dale

dameuna · 10-03-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

It is possible in PDF if the PDF is tagged. It is called re-flowing the document. Adobe readers support reflow but most of the other readers do not which is why you said what you said. It is even possible to tag a PDF file after the fact although best results are achieved if it is done at the time the file is created. Tags add smarts about the text to aid in the reflow. Adobe has a content product that is used with ActiveSync on a PC to post tag documents moved to a PPC device so that they can be reflowed. I have seen a product for Palm devices that claims to reflow documents even if they are not tagged but I do not know how well it works.

Dale

Thanks Dale, I was not aware of that.

I found this info on Google Groups about tagging files for reflow. This could be one possibility for use on the V3.

"... older non-tagged PDF documents can be tagged in Acrobat 5.0 (full
product) using Make Accessible plug-in. You can then copy larger PDF
documents directly to CF card (via PC Card slot in your notebook or CF card
reader attached to your desktop) bypassing the slower ActiveSync connection. These files will then also reflow (wrap) to screen width."

NatCh · 10-03-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

I have seen a product for Palm devices that claims to reflow documents even if they are not tagged but I do not know how well it works.

I used to have it, but it was a casualty of a computer change.

It worked quite well, reflowing the text, and treating pictures in a "click to zoom" fashion within the text.

The one I had was put out by Adobe, which demonstrates both that it can be done, and that Adobe knows how to do it (which I'd probably have assumed in the first place).

I've been a bit puzzled for some time as to why they didn't just set something like that up for other devices -- I guess I know that answer now: Digital Editions.

DaleDe · 10-03-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

I used to have it, but it was a casualty of a computer change.

It worked quite well, reflowing the text, and treating pictures in a "click to zoom" fashion within the text.

The one I had was put out by Adobe, which demonstrates both that it can be done, and that Adobe knows how to do it (which I'd probably have assumed in the first place).

I've been a bit puzzled for some time as to why they didn't just set something like that up for other devices -- I guess I know that answer now: Digital Editions.

I wasn't talking about the one from adobe. It is a translator that runs on a pc and makes a file that is in a totally different format. It only runs on a palm and is not compatible with anything else. I was talking about http://www.metaviewsoft.de/en/Softwa...PDF/index.html
which is a program that can actually read pdf files on a Palm without translating them.

Dale

dameuna · 10-03-2007, 05:11 PM

I tend to think that the V3 does not re-flow text even if the tags are present. Wouldn't the user need to tell the viewer program whether to reflow the text or to use smaller fonts to fit it to the screen. There is nothing in the V3 user guide about this.

Also if it reflows the text, that changes the aspect ratio of the page. The standard page sizes all have the ratio of 1 to sqrt(2). If the ratio changes and the viewer fits the width of the page to the width of the screen, the user needs some way to scroll down to see the rest of the page.

DaleDe · 10-04-2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dameuna

I tend to think that the V3 does not re-flow text even if the tags are present. Wouldn't the user need to tell the viewer program whether to reflow the text or to use smaller fonts to fit it to the screen. There is nothing in the V3 user guide about this.

Also if it reflows the text, that changes the aspect ratio of the page. The standard page sizes all have the ratio of 1 to sqrt(2). If the ratio changes and the viewer fits the width of the page to the width of the screen, the user needs some way to scroll down to see the rest of the page.

Yes, reflow is usually an option in the menus if it is supported. I doubt that v3 would support that if it is not in the menus. This means that it is likely that it zooms the image which is generally not satisfactory for reading books. That means it will end up like the sony where you have to build specific books for the size of the reader. Likely you can use the sony built pdf on V3.

Note that when reflow works it also resizes the pages to the page size of the device. Aspect ratio is not a factor. The treatment of images is usually to shrink them if necessary to fit the page. They may also move slightly in the reflowed book with regard to the original placement.

Dale

JSWolf · 10-04-2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dameuna

Miyami,

In the first picture can you read the tiny bottom line of text with no problem? In the fourth picture, can you read the wire colors and voltages on the right? If so, the resolution is great.

The pictures look great. Thanks for posting them.

The screen in the pictures is slightly larger then 6 inches on my screen at 1600x1200. Any lower resolution and it'll be even larger. So what you are seeing is something enlarged.

dameuna · 10-06-2007, 10:25 AM

I was psyched to get a V3 and actually placed an online order. I was just waiting for their reply. In the meantime, I decided to go to the Sony store and look at their reader. One word sums it up: disappointment. The contrast on the screen is terrible. The background is a muddy gray and the characters are not quite totally black. It was not comfortable reading on it --- in spite of the fact the books on it were only 40 characters wide. There was just one book on it that was 60 characters wide.

There was a poster next to the Sony reader with advertising on it. The difference between the print on the poster and the print on the reader was like night and day. The lighting in the mall store was pretty bad and I asked the clerk if he would disconnect the reader so that I could move it to where the light was better. But he refused to do this. I don't know if more light would have helped the contrast. The clerk said that there was no way to change the contrast on the reader.

The Sony has an "Size" button that is supposed to enlarge the font. But it must only do this for specially tagged files, because this only worked for a couple of books. When it did work, it helped but the low contrast still made in uncomfortable to read. The Sony does not allow you to read in landscape mode like on the V3.

I assume that the screen in the Sony that I saw was non-vizplex. Is the contrast in the vizplex significantly better? I am now hesitant to complete my order.

MikeF74 · 10-06-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dameuna

I assume that the screen in the Sony that I saw was non-vizplex. Is the contrast in the vizplex significantly better? I am now hesitant to complete my order.

Were the numbered buttons 1-10 along the bottom edge, or the right edge of the screen? If they were along the bottom, then you were looking at the older non-vizplex display which has less contrast.

JSWolf · 10-06-2007, 10:41 AM

And if you hold down the size button it will switch orientation.

dameuna · 10-07-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeF74

Were the numbered buttons 1-10 along the bottom edge, or the right edge of the screen? If they were along the bottom, then you were looking at the older non-vizplex display which has less contrast.

The buttons 1-10 were along the bottom edge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And if you hold down the size button it will switch orientation.

I asked the clerk if it can switch orientation and he said no. Maybe he was wrong but he acted like he was sure of this.

10-03-2007, 11:24 AM	#137
dameuna Member Posts: 18 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2007 Device: Hanlin V3	After reading through all of the threads on the Hamlin, I think I found some of the answers to my questions. I didn't realize that "A4' is the rest of the world's equivalent to U.S. letter size of 8.5 x 11 inch. So now I see why this was a hot topic. Zdevil: When I asked about wrapping of text lines, I meant the splitting of a long line by inserting a newline between words. Formats like TXT and DOC allow the viewing program to do this, but I don't think that this is possible with PDF. I think that the line length is set by the PDF. and that the viewing program can only mess with the size of the font to try and fit the line within the screen. But it looks like the V3 can remove the empty border on the left and right side of the page. Last edited by dameuna; 10-03-2007 at 11:25 AM. Reason: fix

10-03-2007, 11:33 AM	#138
MikeF74 Groupie Posts: 179 Karma: 28 Join Date: May 2007 Device: Sony PRS-505	Here is an image from Wikipedia that shows the difference between A4 and US Letter and Legal sizes. We always have to do things different here. If you look at your printer or scanner, you will notice that there is a little extra room in the paper feed tray and scanner bed size. This is because most of these devices are made to the slightly wider/shorter A4 specification. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lustration.png I never realized until I saw this picture that the various A-sizes came from the successive cutting in half of a larger standard size of paper... the A0. Last edited by MikeF74; 10-03-2007 at 11:36 AM.

10-03-2007, 05:11 PM	#144
dameuna Member Posts: 18 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2007 Device: Hanlin V3	re-flow I tend to think that the V3 does not re-flow text even if the tags are present. Wouldn't the user need to tell the viewer program whether to reflow the text or to use smaller fonts to fit it to the screen. There is nothing in the V3 user guide about this. Also if it reflows the text, that changes the aspect ratio of the page. The standard page sizes all have the ratio of 1 to sqrt(2). If the ratio changes and the viewer fits the width of the page to the width of the screen, the user needs some way to scroll down to see the rest of the page. Last edited by dameuna; 10-03-2007 at 07:00 PM. Reason: addition

10-06-2007, 10:25 AM	#147
dameuna Member Posts: 18 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2007 Device: Hanlin V3	I was psyched to get a V3 and actually placed an online order. I was just waiting for their reply. In the meantime, I decided to go to the Sony store and look at their reader. One word sums it up: disappointment. The contrast on the screen is terrible. The background is a muddy gray and the characters are not quite totally black. It was not comfortable reading on it --- in spite of the fact the books on it were only 40 characters wide. There was just one book on it that was 60 characters wide. There was a poster next to the Sony reader with advertising on it. The difference between the print on the poster and the print on the reader was like night and day. The lighting in the mall store was pretty bad and I asked the clerk if he would disconnect the reader so that I could move it to where the light was better. But he refused to do this. I don't know if more light would have helped the contrast. The clerk said that there was no way to change the contrast on the reader. The Sony has an "Size" button that is supposed to enlarge the font. But it must only do this for specially tagged files, because this only worked for a couple of books. When it did work, it helped but the low contrast still made in uncomfortable to read. The Sony does not allow you to read in landscape mode like on the V3. I assume that the screen in the Sony that I saw was non-vizplex. Is the contrast in the vizplex significantly better? I am now hesitant to complete my order. Last edited by dameuna; 10-06-2007 at 10:27 AM.

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10-02-2007, 02:45 PM	#136
ibat Fool Posts: 71 Karma: 45 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: HanLin V3, Cybook Odyssey HD, PocketBook PB626, PB632	@LVD Great news! Can we order them from Europe? I'm interested in getting one. How is the i18n, is there sufficient documentation in English? Would I understand the SDK w/o Russian background?

10-06-2007, 10:41 AM	#149
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,796 Karma: 146391129 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	And if you hold down the size button it will switch orientation.