"American Gods" discussion

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Latinandgreek

His Sandman is the immortal King of Dreams (and stories). His 6 brothers and sisters are the immortal representations of Death, Desire, Destruction, Destiny, Despair and Delirium. The comic follows a decade or so of their existence. That's all I can say without giving too much of the plot away, in case you decide to read the graphic novels.

Thanks. Sounds interesting.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by recluse

Shadow said yes to everything.
But who is Shadow?
He remains. Unchanged. Still a shadow.

There's this interesting quote from the book, by Laura:

' "I love you," she said, dispassionately. "You're my puppy. But when you're really dead you get to see things clearer. It's like there isn't anyone there. You know? You're like this big, solid, man-shaped hole in the world." She frowned. "Even when we were together. I loved being with you. You adored me, and you would do anything for me. But sometimes I'd go into a room and I wouldn't think there was anybody in there. And I'd turn the light on, or I'd turn the light off, and I'd realize that you were in there, sitting on your own, not reading, not watching TV, not doing anything." '

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by Latinandgreek

His Sandman is the immortal King of Dreams (and stories).

Picked up the first three volumes of "Sandman" yesterday. It's been a *long time* since I've read comics.

[Latinandgreek]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Picked up the first three volumes of "Sandman" yesterday. It's been a *long time* since I've read comics.

I hope you enjoy the comics, I really enjoyed them and I have re-read them several times. I really believe that reading the comics adds an extra depth to American Gods.

[Ea]

I'll try to answer myself. It sounds rather like Shadow is 'placeholder'. A cut-out to fill with whatever one feels most fitting.

Do you think we - each reader here - filled out the Shadow-sized hole with our own expectations? And what expectations?

Originally Posted by Ea

There's this interesting quote from the book, by Laura:

' "I love you," she said, dispassionately. "You're my puppy. But when you're really dead you get to see things clearer. It's like there isn't anyone there. You know? You're like this big, solid, man-shaped hole in the world." She frowned. "Even when we were together. I loved being with you. You adored me, and you would do anything for me. But sometimes I'd go into a room and I wouldn't think there was anybody in there. And I'd turn the light on, or I'd turn the light off, and I'd realize that you were in there, sitting on your own, not reading, not watching TV, not doing anything." '

[recluse]

I like that answer very much.
If I may add this additional thought:

The reader fills in their own expectations of Shadow, walk in Shadow's footsteps through the story, to better experience what it means to be a pawn of the gods. Chosen by forces beyond his comprehension to carry out their will.
The quote you chose illustrates this perfectly.
Shadow simply exists, waiting though unaware that he waits, for the hand of a god to set him in motion.

[jgaiser]

Just ran across another forum discussing "American Gods" wth many of the same questions we've been going through.

Of course the first thread I check out was a Shadow/Balder discussion, with a couple interesting quotes we missed.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Just ran across another forum discussing "American Gods" wth many of the same questions we've been going through.

Of course the first thread I check out was a Shadow/Balder discussion, with a couple interesting quotes we missed.

I don't think there was any indication in the novel that Shadow's mother was anything but human, and I don't find the arguments for her being Frigg (or even Freja) very good. I think it's a stretch (over-stretched ).
What do you think yourself?

[Latinandgreek]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Just ran across another forum discussing "American Gods" wth many of the same questions we've been going through.

Of course the first thread I check out was a Shadow/Balder discussion, with a couple interesting quotes we missed.

Thanks for the link. At first glance it looks like an interesting site, I'll have a more in-depth look later.

[Trebro]

Originally Posted by recluse

And I liked Gaiman's "Neverwhere" very much.

Neverwhere and Stardust are both excellent books. They use some similar themes (including a protagonist who doesn't understand what's going on around him for most of the book) as in American Gods, and have quite a few adult themes as well.

What they don't have, and I think it's for the better, is the frequent crude references. Those drove me crazy in American Gods.

[Trebro]

Ok, jumping in here (a bit late, I know).

First, I'm glad I finished this time, but man, this book has a rough start. I think it's best suited to those who have a deep love of mythology of all kinds. I also think that, for better or worse, Gaiman tends to write similar themes into his books, and having read all of Sandman, Neverwhere, Stardust, and now American Gods, I'm not sure I need to read more. I kinda feel like I've had my fill of reading about how myth and fantasy blend into real life, if only we know how to look for it.

In terms of Shadow, for me he's the personification of American doubt in the idea of *any* belief. He has no strong feelings for anything, whether it's Native American, Norse, or Modern gods. He'll go through the motions of worship, but for him, he'll never more than shadow the beliefs that others have had before him. So I don't think he's Balder or Thor (my initial guess, for what it's worth) or anyone so much as he's a part of all the gods, and never ever to be one incarnation of anything.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by Trebro

Ok, jumping in here (a bit late, I know).

First, I'm glad I finished this time, but man, this book has a rough start. I think it's best suited to those who have a deep love of mythology of all kinds. I also think that, for better or worse, Gaiman tends to write similar themes into his books, and having read all of Sandman, Neverwhere, Stardust, and now American Gods, I'm not sure I need to read more. I kinda feel like I've had my fill of reading about how myth and fantasy blend into real life, if only we know how to look for it.

Ii think you're absolutely right that an interest in mythology is necessary. That was what brought me to read the book in the first place, and it created a deeper interest in the book the second time I read it.

I think I simply like the theme of myth blending with reality and would easily read more of Gaiman - though most of his books seemed aimed at a YA audience primarily. What I liked about American Gods is the grown-up adult tone of it. It felt darker and more serious, where both Neverwhere and Stardust was a tad too "light" for my taste.

Originally Posted by Trebro

In terms of Shadow, for me he's the personification of American doubt in the idea of *any* belief. He has no strong feelings for anything, whether it's Native American, Norse, or Modern gods. He'll go through the motions of worship, but for him, he'll never more than shadow the beliefs that others have had before him. So I don't think he's Balder or Thor (my initial guess, for what it's worth) or anyone so much as he's a part of all the gods, and never ever to be one incarnation of anything.

This is without question a most interesting interpretation of Shadow. As you put it, he is a shadow - hence his name. I don't think we really took that into consideration.
So now I wonder what could be gotten out of contemplating the name of "Shadow"...

Originally Posted by Trebro

...

What they don't have, and I think it's for the better, is the frequent crude references. Those drove me crazy in American Gods.

I must admit it was not something I noticed. I am actually a little bewildered about whatever you could perceive as crude references. As far as I remember it all felt in character and pretty usual

[Penforhire]

But he has such a strong personal ethic (e.g. going back to submit to the hammer blow, often fatal even from an ordinary man). Seems like that ethic had to germinate from some belief.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

But he has such a strong personal ethic (e.g. going back to submit to the hammer blow, often fatal even from an ordinary man). Seems like that ethic had to germinate from some belief.

I would say he accepts his fate as in he doesn't try to run away. He also carries out Wednesdays' wake, which kills him. But I wonder if it requires a strong ethic to accept and follow as he does. But yes, I would think it requires a great deal of trust and acceptance to show up at the home of Czernobog when he could have stayed away. But would staying away have changed his fate?

[Penforhire]

Possibly. Certainly not in the world of American Gods. But if he doesn't believe in the gods why would he believe in fate (or the Fates, lol)?