How Do You Read Your E-Books

[NatCh]

Not to discount any of what you're saying, balok, but they're hardly alone in that.

If they'd chosen an existing format, they'd have had to choose someone else's lock in format -- it's not like there was a "standard" one already.

I take it as a good sign that they've signed on to the .epub thing.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by NatCh

Not to discount any of what you're saying, balok, but they're hardly alone in that.

If they'd chosen an existing format, they'd have had to choose someone else's lock in format -- it's not like there was a "standard" one already.

I take it as a good sign that they've signed on to the .epub thing.

I doubt that this is a good sign in and of itself. epub does not address the DRM issue at all but permits users to develop their own. Signing up doesn't change that. It is likely that many .epub subscribers are going to use it as an authoring tool and then covert to their own format for distribution. Thus it will help authors to have a single source document but will not stop the proliferation of formats for the end users.

At least that is my take on it.

Dale

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by balok

Sony could easily have adopted an existing format instead of adding another language to the tower of babel.

Sony's business practices sometimes border on dishonesty. They try to keep buyers captive to their product line, instead of letting consumers make a free choice based on the merit of the product.

Sony chose to do it their way. They are not forcing anyone else to buy it or use it. How is it dishonest? Why is it you have a chip on your shoulder? Once Sony supports epub, then they wuill be supporting someone else's format.

[balok]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Sony chose to do it their way. They are not forcing anyone else to buy it or use it. How is it dishonest? Why is it you have a chip on your shoulder? Once Sony supports epub, then they wuill be supporting someone else's format.

In a way, they are forcing people to buy and use it. I'll explain why. Let's say I buy a Sony Reader. A couple years later, the reader klonks out. I look at the various products available, and I conclude that the Bookeen device is a better choice. I would like to get that one, but I can't because I have tons of BBeB books I still want to read. So I buy another Sony Reader. With what may be inferior product, Sony keeps us captive because of their proprietary format. I think that's anti-competitive. Of cours the same thing could be said of any other device which uses a proprietary format, but Sony has a history of this kind of thing: Betamax, MiniDisc, Memory Stick... and soon Blu-Ray, which seems to be losing the format war against HD-DVD.

The chip on my shoulder is there because Sony just sucks. They may have fine products, but their business practices stink. For every customer they keep captive because of their proprietary format, there's a customer who refuses to buy a Sony product because it's not compatible with anything else. Ever noticed how Memory Stick cards cost way more than other formats, but they aren't necessarily any better? I really feel sorry for the poor suckers who own Memory Stick-only devices, but they deserve it for having bought a Sony product.

[yvanleterrible]

I don't want to be rude but even if Sony's way shows strong arm techniques, everybody doing software and hardware combos do it in the same way. Apple deals the same even if in a 'looser Californian' style. What about Microsoft? They sure are trying hard to reach similar goals. This whole concept is simply based on the ephemeral properties of consumerism. Work the hardest and fastest to reap the most in the shortest.

It is your choice to do or pass. Granted the market is not quite mature in the ebook industry but things will change and move quickly when DRM and format issues get resolved as in the music industry.

Sony is vindicated for its ways as all leaders of a new field are. It's the price we pay for the investment they make in the uncertainty of novelty, short and simple.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by balok

In a way, they are forcing people to buy and use it. I'll explain why. Let's say I buy a Sony Reader. A couple years later, the reader klonks out. I look at the various products available, and I conclude that the Bookeen device is a better choice. I would like to get that one, but I can't because I have tons of BBeB books I still want to read. So I buy another Sony Reader. With what may be inferior product, Sony keeps us captive because of their proprietary format. I think that's anti-competitive. Of cours the same thing could be said of any other device which uses a proprietary format, but Sony has a history of this kind of thing: Betamax, MiniDisc, Memory Stick... and soon Blu-Ray, which seems to be losing the format war against HD-DVD.

Let's say you buy a Cybook Gen3. A couple years later, the gen3 konks out. You look at the various products available, and conclude that the Sony device is a better choice. You would like to get one, but can't because you have tons of MobiPocket books you still want to read. So you buy another Cybook. With what may be an inferior product. Bookeen keeps us captive because of a DRM filled ebook format.

Now do you notice how that can be turned around to any device that uses DRM?

[yvanleterrible]

@balok
This field is evolving so fast that the device you buy is out less than a year later. So being forewarned just make sure you get content and accessories that suit you... now. Remember that Sony left us the open door of other formats such as RTF, PDF and TXT. We're not as captive as you say in this case.

[NatCh]

The DRM thing is a sword that cuts every direction. The only viable option I see is to buy content only in formats I can convert (nice for me that I like the stuff Baen publishes, but there are ... other options too). Presently, I'm only buying formats I can't convert if I'm pretty sure I won't want to re-read the book later.

'Course, that strategy is sometimes hard to pull off.

I'm hopeful that .epub will have a beneficial effect on all that, but if it doesn't, then I'll continue as before.

[yvanleterrible]

Sure some books are like movies, you see it once and that's it, you'll never go there again. No need to let the pack rat in me take control, but a decent price has to be set as limit, that's where my beef is.

[balok]

Originally Posted by NatCh

The DRM thing is a sword that cuts every direction. The only viable option I see is to buy content only in formats I can convert (nice for me that I like the stuff Baen publishes, but there are ... other options too). Presently, I'm only buying formats I can't convert if I'm pretty sure I won't want to re-read the book later.

I agree wholeheartedly. The real problem here is DRM, without which there would be little need for these proprietary formats. We consumers need to get our act together and refuse to buy DRMed books. Yvan also has a point about the prices.

Maybe a bit of organized disobedience could turn the tables. If more people started reading pirated ebooks, that could force publishers to abandon DRM and lower their prices. If organized properly, such action could be considered morally acceptable. For example, if we were to take a limited number of pirated ebooks from each publisher who uses DRM, and offer them online with the express purpose of exerting pressure on the industry... we could even sell the pirated ebooks and send the money to the publisher, just to prove that we're serious.

These dinosaurs won't move unless we push them. Just look at the music industry. They were forced to clean up their act because of online mp3 sharing, and new paradigms now seem to be working, like iTunes (low price) and Amazon's (DRM-free) service.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by balok

In a way, they are forcing people to buy and use it. I'll explain why. Let's say I buy a Sony Reader. A couple years later, the reader klonks out. I look at the various products available, and I conclude that the Bookeen device is a better choice. I would like to get that one, but I can't because I have tons of BBeB books I still want to read. So I buy another Sony Reader. With what may be inferior product, Sony keeps us captive because of their proprietary format. I think that's anti-competitive.

I'm sorry, but this is simply a common sense way to do business. I could re-write the above paragraph and say:

Let's say I buy a Canon camera. A couple years later, the camera klonks out. I look at the various products available, and I conclude that the Nikon camera is a better choice. I would like to get that one, but I can't because I have tons of Canon lenses that I still want to use. So I buy another Canon camera. With what may be inferior product, Canon keeps us captive because of their proprietary lens fittings. I think that's anti-competitive.

Or:

Let's say I buy a Microsoft XBox. A couple years later, the console klonks out. I look at the various products available, and I conclude that the Sony Playstation is a better choice. I would like to get that one, but I can't because I have tons of XBox games I still want to play. So I buy another XBox. With what may be inferior product, Microsoft keeps us captive because of their proprietary format. I think that's anti-competitive.

See what I mean? Virtually any manufacturer which sells a base product, and then relies on the customer buying "add ons" for it operates the same way. It's not anti-competitive, but good business sense.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by NatCh

The DRM thing is a sword that cuts every direction. The only viable option I see is to buy content only in formats I can convert (nice for me that I like the stuff Baen publishes, but there are ... other options too). Presently, I'm only buying formats I can't convert if I'm pretty sure I won't want to re-read the book later.

'Course, that strategy is sometimes hard to pull off.

I'm hopeful that .epub will have a beneficial effect on all that, but if it doesn't, then I'll continue as before.

But, what if you read this DRM laden book and decide after you've read it that you might want to read it again someday?

[yvanleterrible]

Maybe a bit of organized disobedience could turn the tables. If more people started reading pirated ebooks, that could force publishers to abandon DRM and lower their prices. If organized properly, such action could be considered morally acceptable. For example, if we were to take a limited number of pirated ebooks from each publisher who uses DRM, and offer them online with the express purpose of exerting pressure on the industry... we could even sell the pirated ebooks and send the money to the publisher, just to prove that we're serious.

It's impossible to organize such a movement yet as the ebook hasn't met a populist success. Further still, ebook readers, being only coveted by gadgeteers at this point, strike a very egotistical chord in the psyche of many of us. No way to have a consensus worthy of action at this point.

[Lemurion]

Personally I think the only way to change their mind about DRM (and it's a slow way) has nothing to do with piracy. That will just feed their fears. What we as consumers have to do is not only refuse to buy DRM-crippled product, but also buy DRM-free products. If they see that DRM-free means more sales they're more likely to take that route. Having said that it's vital to vote with your dollars and actually buy the products you believe in.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Personally I think the only way to change their mind about DRM (and it's a slow way) has nothing to do with piracy. That will just feed their fears. What we as consumers have to do is not only refuse to buy DRM-crippled product, but also buy DRM-free products. If they see that DRM-free means more sales they're more likely to take that route. Having said that it's vital to vote with your dollars and actually buy the products you believe in.

I entirely agree with you, Lemurion. Clearly the way to encourage publishers that DRM is unnecessary is to boost the sales of DRM-free books. Pirating DRM-protected books, as balok suggests, will do nothing other than to confirm the view of those publishers that DRM is necessary to fight the pirates.