Am I wrong or is it too soon for most ebook readers - Page 3

guguy · 09-26-2007, 02:16 PM

When dedicated readers will cost 100$ or less, which should happend in about 2-3 years they will probably become popular.

I prefere a dedicated reader for many reasons, but the first is probably the huge battery life
and the great quality of the screen : remember e-ink screen are +- 166dpi which is much
better than LCD screens which are mostly only 72dpi.

DaleDe · 09-26-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guguy

When dedicated readers will cost 100$ or less, which should happend in about 2-3 years they will probably become popular.

I prefere a dedicated reader for many reasons, but the first is probably the huge battery life
and the great quality of the screen : remember e-ink screen are +- 166dpi which is much
better than LCD screens which are mostly only 72dpi.

72??? All of the ones I have seen recently are over 100 dpi and in some cases quite a bit over.

Dale

guguy · 09-26-2007, 03:47 PM

Right, some PDA like the dell axim 51v have high-res screen but with only
3 hours battery life...

Liviu_5 · 09-26-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guguy

When dedicated readers will cost 100$ or less, which should happend in about 2-3 years they will probably become popular.

I prefere a dedicated reader for many reasons, but the first is probably the huge battery life
and the great quality of the screen : remember e-ink screen are +- 166dpi which is much
better than LCD screens which are mostly only 72dpi.

The 770 has 225 dpi

guguy · 09-26-2007, 07:04 PM

Ok, you are right... still, 166dpi is enough for reading and the 770 only
has 3 hours of battery life...

Liviu_5 · 09-26-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guguy

Ok, you are right... still, 166dpi is enough for reading and the 770 only
has 3 hours of battery life...

If you just read on it, 770 gets you 5 hrs easily; 3 hrs is for heavy use including browsing, games...
I never found the battery life any problem on 770 and I use it very heavily, but again it all depends on your needs.

HarryT · 09-27-2007, 02:41 AM

My HP iPaq 4700 Pocket PC has a full VGA screen, which is a resolution of about 200dpi, and will run for a good 10h+ on a single battery charge when used for reading. There's an extended battery available which more than doubles that.

guguy · 09-27-2007, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

My HP iPaq 4700 Pocket PC has a full VGA screen, which is a resolution of about 200dpi, and will run for a good 10h+ on a single battery charge when used for reading. There's an extended battery available which more than doubles that.

Well, can you tell us which device you prefere ? Sony Reader or your
hp pda?

HarryT · 09-27-2007, 08:23 AM

I far prefer reading on my iLiad and Sony Reader. For me, the clarity and size of the eInk screen are much nicer to read on than the iPaq, even though the iPaq is actually a higher resolution screen.

jveenem · 09-28-2007, 11:23 PM

Jeez Louise!

Following a link I got to Tablet Kiosk (is that a brand or a merchant?) and saw their "entry level" tablet with a 12" color screen (is that 12" diagonal? most of the others say 7" ... maybe they are 7" diagonal)

Isn't that what we really want, a big screen that will do EVERYTHING, text, magazine layout and full color?

But the price ... $1,800! Isn't that the reason why you WANT to get a dedicated device? To cut down the technology to ONLY what you want to do and cut the price down with it. Why is it the techology companies always seem to go nowhere with the price? I remember being in the market for a stand alone keyboard I could write on and then later attach it to my computer and download the text to my PC. Great idea. Needs less technology than a PC ... but then why did most of them cost as much as a PC? Even at $300 that seemed excessive as I only wanted a keyboard with some memory in it. I finally found one, a used two year old model AlphaSmart which I got on Ebay for $25 (with $25 shipping ... grrr) But why does one have to buck the whole system to get something?

I've been the Pocket PC route and was dissatisfied, one because it's screen was so small but two all the rest it could do was wasted. I really only wanted an e-reader. The "cut down a PDA to make an E-reader" idea was the idea behind the Franklin Ebookman, no? But why did they price it at the same cost as a PDA? ... infact there were cheaper PDA's. True, the Ebookman finally got dumped and you could pick them up later for $35 ... but, sadly I suppose, by that time I'd found the EBookwise and went with it instead. (The Ebookman for some reason had trouble with some USB's, you apparently couldn't have it from a USB board it had to be from the motherboard, my Windows 98 machine thus was incompatible and the thing refused to work ... broke my heart at the time)

Okay ... so big color screens DO exist ... when will somebody do the rest and for a peanut price. I swear if they do it'll be a revolution. Imagine all those kids who don't need backpacks for textbooks and can read homework AND comics on a handheld device ... somebody will make a billion dollars off that ... but nobody seems to have the brains to do it yet. Instead we get $300 and $600 plain text devices in black and white that are only suitable for afficiandos. The Text'n Tech heads.

That I live to see the day.

Later
JVN

DaleDe · 09-29-2007, 12:21 AM

Big color screens have big appetites for batteries. And if they are too big they are not very portable. The REB1200, GEB2150 had a color screen and an 8" display. To get a few hours of life out of it you added enough batteries so it weighed in at over 2 lbs. you can still find them on ebay and the folks that have one love them but they are not the solution I am looking for. For me, gray scale is fine for reading books with illustrations even since they are not glossy magazines that I read. I want low price, less than a pound, reasonable size to hold like a book and long battery life. A lighted display is a real plus as well.

Dale

HarryT · 09-29-2007, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jveenem

Jeez Louise!

Following a link I got to Tablet Kiosk (is that a brand or a merchant?) and saw their "entry level" tablet with a 12" color screen (is that 12" diagonal? most of the others say 7" ... maybe they are 7" diagonal)

Isn't that what we really want, a big screen that will do EVERYTHING, text, magazine layout and full color?

Personally, no. I want a paperback-book size device for reading, well, paperback books on. I don't want something A4 sized; it's too big to carry around with you all the time, and an LCD screen that size is probably going to have a very short battery life.

This isn't a "one size fits all" market - that's very important to realise. You may want a big colour screen, but I don't. There's room in the market for devices with a number of different form factors.

jveenem · 09-30-2007, 02:03 PM

I've not been clear in what I said ... due to what I said ... matter of emphasis I guess.

The "Paperback" Bookreader has already been here ... and gone ... it seems for lack of interest. Gemstar couldn't do it. Franklin couldn't do it on the no frills side. Rocket e-book seems to have come closest maybe in getting acceptance and use, but from my impression more so outside of america.

Perhaps, it was actually from a lack of support on the manufacturer's side as they priced themselves out of the running with the general public. Pricing a "simplified" item so high.

But that is not a criticism of the Text reader as such. I've already got MY substitute Paperback reader, for me it's the Ebookwise. And though I'm tempted occasionally to "upgrade" to a Sony or such. I haven't done it because they aren't to "the next step", they're not (to me at least) doing something $300 better ... not yet.

BUT I do see that the day of the ebook is coming, not for what it can do to try to replace the paperback but what it can do for all reading matter. Example previously given, replacing the backpack of books for school kids.

It's not that I dearly want a big color screen reader and am dissatisfied with my text reader but that I like others occasionally have tried to push my device closer to a next step, the step most manufacturers don't seem very interested in doing. And I'm really puzzled why they aren't trying harder to get there themselves.

I really don't see this, the text reader, as a "Specialized Niche" item. I do see this as currently having a specialized enthusiastic following, a niche of text'n tech heads willing to pay extra for the return others don't quite appreciate yet. But only as the "killer app" hasn't been found for it. My opinion the "next step" would begin that process but manufacturers don't seem to see it that way ... yet.

What I'm talking about is the ratio of use to cost. Look at Ipod, it's another "simplified" tech object with an enormous price but I really think it hadn't a chance if Mp3 and CD ripping and the connected "Piracy" ... a world of almost free audio ... hadn't been found first. It was an after the barn door closer, semi-legitimizing the destruction of the music industry. It makes that sort of "piracy" easier to handle ... or at least the portable Mp3 device if not Ipods just by themselves.

Not many people are as yet into the vast sea of almost free reading matter that's out there, so they don't have the need yet of a device to make that "piracy" comfortable. Not Yet. But cross the threshold, make an ebook almost a required device ... I've heard ebooks, outside of a dedicated reader as yet, in the form of pdfs, have become more and more necessary in the legal profession ... let it become an already in hand device, say for some professionals and, I think, school kids. Then watch the flood of "free" ebooks become generalized, and with that will come a flood of ebook devices. Some fancy, able to do full color at a big size ... able for me to include my collection of e-comic books into a handheld device ... and some simple, just text.

Again ... this is futurism not fact .... not yet.

Later
JVN

Steven Lyle Jordan · 09-30-2007, 03:10 PM

I wouldn't say that the iPod, or the e-book, somehow "legitimize" piracy. Both items simply take full advantage of a new digital medium, and provide ways for people to maximize their use of it. If anything, the iPod has helped curb piracy, and bring some measure of control back to the music industry, while prompting it to begin to change with the times.

As people have discovered the advantages of digital music (not the least of which is buying only the music you want, and storing vast numbers of songs in tiny spaces), they will also discover the similar advantages of e-books. It will just take longer, books aren't as "sexy" a product as music, so the desire and acceptance will take longer.

But as I've said elsewhere, if popular magazines get into the e-book market soon, and a color e-book reader exists to take advantage of them (even if it's just a light laptop or tablet PC), they will help provide that "sexiness" that will kick off e-book desire and acceptance. If there's even an e-book "craze," it will be led by mags like People, Maxim and Playboy.

HappyMartin · 10-01-2007, 02:17 AM

I think it useful to compare ipods and other mp3 devices to e readers. In terms of pricing you can can buy a lot of cheap mp3 players yet the prestige and sheer attractiveness of the ipod had a massive impact on the music industry and on acquiring music online. You can buy two dishwashers for the price of the top ipod. I have had an ipod for years, somewhere in the mess of my cupboard where it keeps company with other stuff I had to have and never use. The point is I don't think that price is a deal breaker.

I also dont care about bigger screens, the iLiad is a convenient size, like a paperback. Over many years the pbook size has settled where it is because it works, no need for bigger. As for colour: I have never felt the slightest desire for a colour paperback book and feel the same about my reader.

Sure we all have different needs, no problem with that. When we confuse our needs with what is required to make ebooks more successful we confuse things. Seems that little real research has been done in this area. Questions that seem pertinent are who reads books and how comfortable are these people with technology. I could be wrong but I suspect that the answer to that question will tell us more about ereader acceptance and sales than the price of the devices.

09-28-2007, 11:23 PM	#40
jveenem Junior Member Posts: 4 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2007 Device: Ebookwise	Whooo boy! Jeez Louise! Following a link I got to Tablet Kiosk (is that a brand or a merchant?) and saw their "entry level" tablet with a 12" color screen (is that 12" diagonal? most of the others say 7" ... maybe they are 7" diagonal) Isn't that what we really want, a big screen that will do EVERYTHING, text, magazine layout and full color? But the price ... $1,800! Isn't that the reason why you WANT to get a dedicated device? To cut down the technology to ONLY what you want to do and cut the price down with it. Why is it the techology companies always seem to go nowhere with the price? I remember being in the market for a stand alone keyboard I could write on and then later attach it to my computer and download the text to my PC. Great idea. Needs less technology than a PC ... but then why did most of them cost as much as a PC? Even at $300 that seemed excessive as I only wanted a keyboard with some memory in it. I finally found one, a used two year old model AlphaSmart which I got on Ebay for $25 (with $25 shipping ... grrr) But why does one have to buck the whole system to get something? I've been the Pocket PC route and was dissatisfied, one because it's screen was so small but two all the rest it could do was wasted. I really only wanted an e-reader. The "cut down a PDA to make an E-reader" idea was the idea behind the Franklin Ebookman, no? But why did they price it at the same cost as a PDA? ... infact there were cheaper PDA's. True, the Ebookman finally got dumped and you could pick them up later for $35 ... but, sadly I suppose, by that time I'd found the EBookwise and went with it instead. (The Ebookman for some reason had trouble with some USB's, you apparently couldn't have it from a USB board it had to be from the motherboard, my Windows 98 machine thus was incompatible and the thing refused to work ... broke my heart at the time) Okay ... so big color screens DO exist ... when will somebody do the rest and for a peanut price. I swear if they do it'll be a revolution. Imagine all those kids who don't need backpacks for textbooks and can read homework AND comics on a handheld device ... somebody will make a billion dollars off that ... but nobody seems to have the brains to do it yet. Instead we get $300 and $600 plain text devices in black and white that are only suitable for afficiandos. The Text'n Tech heads. That I live to see the day. Later JVN

09-30-2007, 02:03 PM	#43
jveenem Junior Member Posts: 4 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2007 Device: Ebookwise	Lack of emphasis? I've not been clear in what I said ... due to what I said ... matter of emphasis I guess. The "Paperback" Bookreader has already been here ... and gone ... it seems for lack of interest. Gemstar couldn't do it. Franklin couldn't do it on the no frills side. Rocket e-book seems to have come closest maybe in getting acceptance and use, but from my impression more so outside of america. Perhaps, it was actually from a lack of support on the manufacturer's side as they priced themselves out of the running with the general public. Pricing a "simplified" item so high. But that is not a criticism of the Text reader as such. I've already got MY substitute Paperback reader, for me it's the Ebookwise. And though I'm tempted occasionally to "upgrade" to a Sony or such. I haven't done it because they aren't to "the next step", they're not (to me at least) doing something $300 better ... not yet. BUT I do see that the day of the ebook is coming, not for what it can do to try to replace the paperback but what it can do for all reading matter. Example previously given, replacing the backpack of books for school kids. It's not that I dearly want a big color screen reader and am dissatisfied with my text reader but that I like others occasionally have tried to push my device closer to a next step, the step most manufacturers don't seem very interested in doing. And I'm really puzzled why they aren't trying harder to get there themselves. I really don't see this, the text reader, as a "Specialized Niche" item. I do see this as currently having a specialized enthusiastic following, a niche of text'n tech heads willing to pay extra for the return others don't quite appreciate yet. But only as the "killer app" hasn't been found for it. My opinion the "next step" would begin that process but manufacturers don't seem to see it that way ... yet. What I'm talking about is the ratio of use to cost. Look at Ipod, it's another "simplified" tech object with an enormous price but I really think it hadn't a chance if Mp3 and CD ripping and the connected "Piracy" ... a world of almost free audio ... hadn't been found first. It was an after the barn door closer, semi-legitimizing the destruction of the music industry. It makes that sort of "piracy" easier to handle ... or at least the portable Mp3 device if not Ipods just by themselves. Not many people are as yet into the vast sea of almost free reading matter that's out there, so they don't have the need yet of a device to make that "piracy" comfortable. Not Yet. But cross the threshold, make an ebook almost a required device ... I've heard ebooks, outside of a dedicated reader as yet, in the form of pdfs, have become more and more necessary in the legal profession ... let it become an already in hand device, say for some professionals and, I think, school kids. Then watch the flood of "free" ebooks become generalized, and with that will come a flood of ebook devices. Some fancy, able to do full color at a big size ... able for me to include my collection of e-comic books into a handheld device ... and some simple, just text. Again ... this is futurism not fact .... not yet. Later JVN

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09-26-2007, 02:16 PM	#31
guguy Groupie Posts: 191 Karma: 15 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Clermont-Ferrand/Paris, France Device: PRS-505	When dedicated readers will cost 100$ or less, which should happend in about 2-3 years they will probably become popular. I prefere a dedicated reader for many reasons, but the first is probably the huge battery life and the great quality of the screen : remember e-ink screen are +- 166dpi which is much better than LCD screens which are mostly only 72dpi.

09-26-2007, 03:47 PM	#33
guguy Groupie Posts: 191 Karma: 15 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Clermont-Ferrand/Paris, France Device: PRS-505	Right, some PDA like the dell axim 51v have high-res screen but with only 3 hours battery life...

09-26-2007, 07:04 PM	#35
guguy Groupie Posts: 191 Karma: 15 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Clermont-Ferrand/Paris, France Device: PRS-505	Ok, you are right... still, 166dpi is enough for reading and the 770 only has 3 hours of battery life...

09-27-2007, 02:41 AM	#37
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	My HP iPaq 4700 Pocket PC has a full VGA screen, which is a resolution of about 200dpi, and will run for a good 10h+ on a single battery charge when used for reading. There's an extended battery available which more than doubles that.

09-27-2007, 08:23 AM	#39
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I far prefer reading on my iLiad and Sony Reader. For me, the clarity and size of the eInk screen are much nicer to read on than the iPaq, even though the iPaq is actually a higher resolution screen.

09-29-2007, 12:21 AM	#41
DaleDe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,470 Karma: 13095790 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Grass Valley, CA Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7	Big color screens have big appetites for batteries. And if they are too big they are not very portable. The REB1200, GEB2150 had a color screen and an 8" display. To get a few hours of life out of it you added enough batteries so it weighed in at over 2 lbs. you can still find them on ebay and the folks that have one love them but they are not the solution I am looking for. For me, gray scale is fine for reading books with illustrations even since they are not glossy magazines that I read. I want low price, less than a pound, reasonable size to hold like a book and long battery life. A lighted display is a real plus as well. Dale

09-30-2007, 03:10 PM	#44
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	I wouldn't say that the iPod, or the e-book, somehow "legitimize" piracy. Both items simply take full advantage of a new digital medium, and provide ways for people to maximize their use of it. If anything, the iPod has helped curb piracy, and bring some measure of control back to the music industry, while prompting it to begin to change with the times. As people have discovered the advantages of digital music (not the least of which is buying only the music you want, and storing vast numbers of songs in tiny spaces), they will also discover the similar advantages of e-books. It will just take longer, books aren't as "sexy" a product as music, so the desire and acceptance will take longer. But as I've said elsewhere, if popular magazines get into the e-book market soon, and a color e-book reader exists to take advantage of them (even if it's just a light laptop or tablet PC), they will help provide that "sexiness" that will kick off e-book desire and acceptance. If there's even an e-book "craze," it will be led by mags like People, Maxim and Playboy.

10-01-2007, 02:17 AM	#45
HappyMartin Martin Kristiansen Posts: 1,546 Karma: 8480958 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Johannesburg Device: Kindle International Ipad 2	I think it useful to compare ipods and other mp3 devices to e readers. In terms of pricing you can can buy a lot of cheap mp3 players yet the prestige and sheer attractiveness of the ipod had a massive impact on the music industry and on acquiring music online. You can buy two dishwashers for the price of the top ipod. I have had an ipod for years, somewhere in the mess of my cupboard where it keeps company with other stuff I had to have and never use. The point is I don't think that price is a deal breaker. I also dont care about bigger screens, the iLiad is a convenient size, like a paperback. Over many years the pbook size has settled where it is because it works, no need for bigger. As for colour: I have never felt the slightest desire for a colour paperback book and feel the same about my reader. Sure we all have different needs, no problem with that. When we confuse our needs with what is required to make ebooks more successful we confuse things. Seems that little real research has been done in this area. Questions that seem pertinent are who reads books and how comfortable are these people with technology. I could be wrong but I suspect that the answer to that question will tell us more about ereader acceptance and sales than the price of the devices.