Apple Event - Live Blogging/Streaming Coverage

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by kilron

really?? cool! is it stanza or something else?

I think perhaps Kobo can do it. Also, the B&N reader supports both types of Adobe DRM I'm pretty sure. So... there are two right there.

BOb

[EowynCarter]

yet how many hours a day do you stare at a backlit lcd screen on your computer, or tv?

Too much already

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by stustaff

Id argue that the TYPICAl end user almost never re-reads a novel they buy. so seems pretty obvious that they wouldnt be bothered to me.

We have a poll on this. Well over 50% of MR members re-read many of their books. Our audience may not be "typical," but we may be closer to "typical book-buyers" than you are assuming.

Originally Posted by scottjl

now this guy has it right

My favorite bit: "Think of how much less time you'd have to spend being tech support for friends and family if they were all on a locked down device like the iPad. Just sayin'"

Only the most blinkered, fervid Apple apologist could imagine that....

This is an ad-hominem attack (or "ad populum," if you prefer). Please don't do this here.

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

PDA's with reasonable sized screens have faded away as well, to the smartphone market...which again has not had a serious impact on readers.

Sure about that? Check the number of ebook reading apps that have been downloaded. I agree that LCD screens aren't for everyone, but many people (including myself) do just fine with them.

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I think perhaps Kobo can do it. Also, the B&N reader supports both types of Adobe DRM I'm pretty sure. So... there are two right there.

Kobo supports ePub with Adobe DE DRM. I don't think B&N does-- that's eReader (though they might be using the Adobe DRM algorithm).

[scottjl]

the iphone speaks out. kinda sums it all up. warning: slightly offensive language used, you have been warned

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by nekokami

Sure about that? Check the number of ebook reading apps that have been downloaded. I agree that LCD screens aren't for everyone, but many people (including myself) do just fine with them.

Yep, quite sure. You might notice that both Sony and Amazon keep hitting problems with not being able to buy enough screens. This is not the sign of a market which is being seriously run down (And hopefully that issue will go away with alternate screen techs being introduced into the market).

[kjk]

http://kara.allthingsd.com/20100128/...ve-jobs-cameo/

Jobs says that eBook prices "will be the same" as Amazon's..(but, he didn't seem that excited about it )

(Also, I can't watch Walt Mossberg now without picturing Mosspuppet http://mosspuppet.com/ )

[kilron]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

There were LCD-based readers before epaper came arround, you know. Then they sunk without a trace. PDA's with reasonable sized screens have faded away as well, to the smartphone market...which again has not had a serious impact on readers.

see, you're making more assumptions with no factual basis. now you're assuming that the reason why these LCD based readers failed was strictly because they were LCD based readers. could it have been a different factor?? cost? quality? ease of accessing books? poor business model? inaccessibility?

prove it to me, don't just give me completely unsubstantiated opinion based on nothing but personal observations.

I'd suggest you pop over into the eye strain thread and have a read...

why? to prove that people get eye strain from reading things? people get eye strain from reading just about anything. but trying to prove to me from reading a forum here that it quantitatively proves that e-ink readers always have less eye strain then lcd readers is silly. prove it to me. show me a study or something like that. otherwise we're down to differences from person to person, with which i'm sure there are many.

[kilron]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Yep, quite sure. You might notice that both Sony and Amazon keep hitting problems with not being able to buy enough screens. This is not the sign of a market which is being seriously run down (And hopefully that issue will go away with alternate screen techs being introduced into the market).

again... misrepresenting something to fit to your own opinion... what you're saying is because amazon's and sony's eReaders sell really really well that PDA and smartphone eReaders have had no effect on them. how exactly can you prove this?

the truth is, PDA and smartphone readers seem to be gaining in popularity quite a lot. its very very possible that they've had a significant impact on Amazon and Sony's business. enough impact so that they're not selling well? most likely not, but have they had a significant impact? its certainly possible. but you certainly can't tell me it hasn't had any impact at all and i certainly can't prove that its had a substantial impact.

[DawnFalcon]

If something is selling out, how can competition have made it sell less? This is not "misrepresentation" in any sense of the word, it's a simple statement of fact.

No matter how popular other readers are, Vizplex production has been selling out. There can't be any actual test of market popularity until there's sufficient production of epaper such that there's excess capacity - at which point the question of relative popularity DOES come into play.

This is quite different from the effect on book sales, of course. And given your attitude, if you want details in future my rates are quite reasonable, PM me for them.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by nekokami

We have a poll on this. Well over 50% of MR members re-read many of their books. Our audience may not be "typical," but we may be closer to "typical book-buyers" than you are assuming.

I'd say the people here aren't the typical best selling book buyer. The most of those millions of sales are going to casual readers. But the people here are probably pretty typical of the types of people buying more obscure books, visiting the bookstore weekly (at least before switching to ebooks) etc.

The avid readers (here and in general) are buying bestsellers too of course. It's just that they're a tiny chunk of the market for a book selling millions, were as they are a bigger chunk of sales for more obscure books. So the best seller publisher doesn't care much about catering to the avid readers who are more likely to re-read books etc.


And when we're talking about the iPad--that's not being marketed to avid readers like dedicated e-ink devices are--it's more going to be the bestseller crowd making up the largest chunk of people reading on it.

i.e. the young, tech savvy crowd that buys it for the multimedia stuff and buys the occasional Twilight or Harry Potter type of book on it.


For me personally, I don't care at all about DRM. I seldom ever re-read a book, and for the few I want to re-read and keep around I always buy a physical book as I still prefer reading them to e-books. The main reason I love e-books is there's not physical book to have to store or sell/donate/give away when I finish it and know I'll never read it again--which is 99% of books I read for leisure.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I don't think B&N does-- that's eReader (though they might be using the Adobe DRM algorithm).

I thought the B&N reader (aka eReader) was updated to support the Adobe/Nook DRM. Perhaps not?

BOb

[kilron]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

If something is selling out, how can competition have made it sell less? This is not "misrepresentation" in any sense of the word, it's a simple statement of fact.

No matter how popular other readers are, Vizplex production has been selling out. There can't be any actual test of market popularity until there's sufficient production of epaper such that there's excess capacity - at which point the question of relative popularity DOES come into play.

This is quite different from the effect on book sales, of course. And given your attitude, if you want details in future my rates are quite reasonable, PM me for them.

given my attitude?? huh? i'm just looking for facts, something you can prove to me, and you still haven't!

NOW you're saying that eReaders are selling out. the only eReader i'm aware of that is actively "selling out" is the Nook and i don't think anyone would argue that that's not because its brand new. amazon always has the kindle in stock and i don't see any issues with places running out of stock in any sony eReaders either. so how exactly are these things selling out if they're always in stock?

if something is selling out, to me, that means that people are having trouble acquiring them and frequently see them as "out of stock" in retail spaces and online. is that happening with anything other than the nook (or for that matter, any other device that JUST launched)? i don't think it is unless someone can correct me, at least not in the US.

so i'm still trying to figure out how you can assume that pda's and smartphone have had no effect on the sales of eReaders.

[DawnFalcon]

I've provided the facts, you just don't like them.

If a product is selling 100% of it's production (as e-ink ereaders currently are), then how can something possibly be having a negative effect on their sales? They're SELLING OUT. Sheesh, this really isn't hard to grasp...

The Kindle and Kindle DX ran out of stock several times during the Christmas run up, there have been shortages of Sony's in Europe as well. This is well documented, simply because you're not aware of them is not my issue.

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by kilron

if something is selling out, to me, that means that people are having trouble acquiring them and frequently see them as "out of stock" in retail spaces and online. is that happening with anything other than the nook (or for that matter, any other device that JUST launched)? i don't think it is unless someone can correct me, at least not in the US.

Boox is sold out world wide. Onyx went thru something like 50k + since the start of the year. We just shipped every device in our last batch last Friday and are already sold probably halfway into the next shipment.

PocketBook's models have sold out occasionally as well here and world wide. Demand for the Ivory 360 in the US was 2x what it was overseas easily outselling its initial shipments. Turnover is very quick even now in January when sales are normally slow after the holidays.

[kilron]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

I've provided the facts, you just don't like them.

If a product is selling 100% of it's production (as e-ink ereaders currently are), then how can something possibly be having a negative effect on their sales? They're SELLING OUT. Sheesh, this really isn't hard to grasp...

The Kindle and Kindle DX ran out of stock several times during the Christmas run up, there have been shortages of Sony's in Europe as well. This is well documented, simply because you're not aware of them is not my issue.

you continue to misrepresent things and not actually address the points i bring up. i'm not attacking you, i'm just looking for something you can prove. show me where it says that the e-ink companies can't produce any more screens. telling me that they're selling all that they make (which is exactly what you wrote) is something completely different.

lots of things run out during the x-mas holiday, but the kindle was by no means out of stock for the entirety of it. every time i checked, it was always in stock. so again, show me how eReaders are selling out. telling me that the displays are not sitting around the display warehouse before they go to the manufacturing factories is not proving to me anything and in no way proves that PDA's and smartphones have had no effect on e-readers. if you can make that correlation with facts, great! just show me!

show me something that's provable. you're giving me unrelated facts (actually, they're unsupported facts that i have to assume are correct, but i'm doing that anyway) that don't support your hypothesis.

here's a fact that you can witness. kindle's are in stock. sony readers are in stock. if they're "in stock". how can they be "selling out"? so then, if they're not "selling out", then there are obviously more to be sold to people that don't yet have them. so its certainly possible that the prevalence of PDA's and smartphones has had some effect on dedicated eReaders like the kindle or sony's reader.

you can always make more. they can always have higher production of e-ink displays and build more factories. you can lower production and still claim that you're selling 100% of what you produce. if i only make 10 units and sell all 10, then i'm selling 100% of production. but then next month i only make 5 and still sell all 5, well hey! good news! i'm still selling 100% of production!

how can you make a correlation from an abstract figure about display production to that PDA's and smartphones have had no effect on sales of eReaders?