Things that are WAAY overdue

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by NormHart

It is worth noting that, as you said, there are two components to hydrogen production. Water (getting more expensive and rarer every day) and electricity (now where is that coming from? (other than the wall I mean)).

I suspect that in an analysis of the two power cycles, electricity-to-battery-to-wheels and water-and-electricity-to-hydrogen-to-fuel or fuel cell-to-wheels the battery cycle will prove more efficient. Of course you have to factor in the environmental impact of battery manufacturing and disposal.

Glad to meet you Normhart.

Water needed to make hydrogen does not need to be pure but I guess the electrolyser would need to remain clean.
Sea water could be used. This is not really a problem. The generation of electricity is though. It is my belief that the UK produces it's power mostly from a nuclear source? Am I wrong?
In Quebec, being blessed with an impressive aquifer, we generate power via hydro. Unfortunately, the brunt of power around the world is generated from fossil fuel.

A major researcher in the field of transportation researcher said a little while ago that "Every EV should be sold with a solar installation". I think he's right.

[GlennD]

Extracting hydrogen from water is not the most efficient way to get it:

The cost of hydrogen production is an important issue. Hydrogen produced by steam reformation costs approximately three times the cost of natural gas per unit of energy produced. This means that if natural gas costs $6/million BTU, then hydrogen will be $18/million BTU. Also, producing hydrogen from electrolysis with electricity at 5 cents/kWh will cost $28/million BTU — slightly less than two times the cost of hydrogen from natural gas. Note that the cost of hydrogen production from electricity is a linear function of electricity costs, so electricity at 10 cents/kWh means that hydrogen will cost $56/million BTU.

Source for this info is here, with some more data on the various methods of hydrogen extraction and their efficiency. Note that there is little to no discussion of byproducts, which is as important to the discussion of hydrogen as cost.

[yvanleterrible]

Another thing that is overdue is that we should stop convincing people that we asbolutely need to go in space.

Let's fix our mess instead of leaving it behind. This is the best damned spaceship available.

A Jetbook Forum at MobileRead.com.

- It needed to be said (again)

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

There is an other point about hydrogen i'd like to share. I've heard this one and it made me blue with rage. You know that hydrogen is simply made with water and electricity. Well them stupid oil mongers want to make it from bloody OIL!!!!

You say that like you're surprised. (Why do you think they're oil mongers? "Say, we've got a great new food to make that breakfast cereal out of: Oil!")

An idea was being kicked around for awhile to store hydrogen in sodium carbonate, making a baking-soda cell that could be refilled at a station (or traded in). But I think they'll get the best results with (yes!) fullerenes, which are proving to be the most efficient at storing the most hydrogen in a small space.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Another thing that is overdue is that we should stop convincing people that we asbolutely need to go in space.

I'd amend that to say we only need to go as far as orbit... there are some useful things we could do there, from manufacturing products that are too difficult to fabricate on Earth, to global monitoring. I say stop there, we don't need to visit other planets.

[LazyScot]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I'd amend that to say we only need to go as far as orbit... there are some useful things we could do there, from manufacturing products that are too difficult to fabricate on Earth, to global monitoring. I say stop there, we don't need to visit other planets.

True, true. The Europeans didn't need to cross the Atlantic. And look where that took us....

I'm one for curiosity -- we don't know whether or not it is worth going into space (beyond earth/moon orbit), but if we don't go we'll never know. I've no problem with trying to do it efficiently, but I think it is somewhat short-sighted to say don't do it because there is no current benefit.

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by LazyScot

True, true. The Europeans didn't need to cross the Atlantic. And look where that took us....

Going out to space is romance. The first explorers took to sea because they had been told there was land further west and they needed it. Further, they needed to find a quicker route to China.

We have no such incentive. But if we did find out there was life somewhere, we'd have to build a small planet to get us there at the expense of this one. Slash and burn.

[Lady Blue]

We need to explore the seas more, instead of space.

Not me personally. I'm not big on the underwater thing.

[balok]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I'll start off with something I think is waay overdue: A single key-fob or similar device, probably thumbprint-verified or something, that opens every lock I own, from my house, to my car, my luggage, my jewelry box, my P.O. box, my office drawers... and even my electronic locks and coded devices. I'm tired of a pocketful of keys and a bunch of passwords!

You got a jewelry box? I thought you was a dude.

[Lady Blue]

Originally Posted by balok

You got a jewelry box? I thought you was a dude.

Is there something wrong with that? Men need a place to keep their watch(es), ring(s), etc. Is it something about the term "jewerly box" that makes it sound weird? A box by any other name would still store your "man jewelry."

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by LazyScot

I'm one for curiosity -- we don't know whether or not it is worth going into space (beyond earth/moon orbit), but if we don't go we'll never know. I've no problem with trying to do it efficiently, but I think it is somewhat short-sighted to say don't do it because there is no current benefit.

I'm not saying not to do it because there is no current benefit. I'm saying we cannot afford the resources wasted on such an endeavor, when we have much more pressing problems to fix, right here, right yesterday.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by balok

You got a jewelry box? I thought you was a dude.

I am a dude. And I've got watches, rings, old bracelets and necklaces (the seventies sure were fun!), ID cards, and rare coins. Until I get around to building a safe in a hidden alcove in my study (right after I build my study, I suppose), I gotta put that stuff somewhere!

Speaking of which, something else that's waay overdue: Ditching the whole "jewelry box," "man-purse," "Mars" and "Venus" and "homo" and "straight" and "hit like a girl" and "man hands" and "who wears the pants in this house" load of felgercarb. Check the oven, that one was burnt to a crisp a long time ago.

[kazbates]

The US space program has been extremely beneficial in other areas in addition to space exploration. A great deal of the science we rely on today, and not just in computer technology, can be directly attributed to the space program (Velcro comes to mind ). There have also been advancements in medical science through experiments conducted in zero gravity. The money spent creates jobs in a number of fields and stimulates the economy (one of JFK's reasons for starting "the space race"). It is basically an R&D program and, as is most often the case with any company, the costs are high but the benefits tend to outweigh the costs.

The space program isn't about making contact with little green aliens. It's about exploring and learning about the universe to which we belong. Knowledge is power, not power to subjugate, but to give us information that may be necessary to overcome problems on our own planet.

[kazbates]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I am a dude. And I've got watches, rings, old bracelets and necklaces (the seventies sure were fun!), ID cards, and rare coins. Until I get around to building a safe in a hidden alcove in my study (right after I build my study, I suppose), I gotta put that stuff somewhere!

Speaking of which, something else that's waay overdue: Ditching the whole "jewelry box," "man-purse," "Mars" and "Venus" and "homo" and "straight" and "hit like a girl" and "man hands" and "who wears the pants in this house" load of felgercarb. Check the oven, that one was burnt to a crisp a long time ago.

Amen!! And the same can be said on the other side of the gender card!