Amazon and DRM changes - Page 193

jhowell · 05-13-2025, 08:12 AM

I took at look at the new BookFab Kindle Converter program to see what I could find out about how it works. There is a caveat in what follows that since I did not actually run the program I may have missed something. Even so, based on my findings I have decided not to install or use this product.

BookFab uses a clever hack to avoid the need to crack the latest KFX DRM. It obtains the customer's credentials and Kindle for PC registration info and then communicates with Amazon's servers pretending to be the latest version of Kindle for PC. However unlike the real app, when it requests a book for download it indicates that it only supports older KFX DRM that has been cracked since 2021. Surprisingly that actually works. Amazon supplies the files that make up the book and then BookFab uses included code from DeDRM and my KFX Input plugin to do the rest of the work.

While that method does work it has some significant problems.

First, it communicates with Amazon's servers in a way that the actual Kindle app would never do. Once Amazon catches on to the glaring difference between the supposed app version and its supported DRM level it will be easy for them to detect when it is being used. And it won't be long since they will look into it once this workaround becomes better known.

Second, they will know exactly which customers are using it. It only works because it supplies Amazon's servers with the user's Amazon account credentials. Amazon will know who is in violation of the their terms of service and they could decide to terminate accounts in order to send a clear message to others who might do the same. In contrast DeDRM does not communicate with Amazon and so its use is invisible to them.

Third, because it only works if Amazon actually responds with obsolete DRM, this hack will be very easy for Amazon to block. Once they do Bookfab customers will be left without a working product for however long it takes them to either find a new clever hack or actually defeat the latest KFX DRM. That could be quite a while.

JSWolf · 05-13-2025, 08:29 AM

Thank you for the explanation on how BookFab works. Do you think Amazon may block the accounts of those using it once they catch on?

jhowell · 05-13-2025, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Thank you for the explanation on how BookFab works. Do you think Amazon may block the accounts of those using it once they catch on?

I don't know if Amazon will or not. I just wanted to raise the issue that they have all of the information they need to target those using this method to bypass DRM if they decide to do so.

rantanplan · 05-13-2025, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Do you think Amazon may block the accounts of those using it once they catch on?

Honestly, it's all guesswork right now. On the other hand, do you truly want to risk your Amazon account? Worst case is, Amazon waits a few months to maximize the amount of users they can ban, and then drop the hammer.

jonathan2022 · 05-13-2025, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

I don't know if Amazon will or not. I just wanted to raise the issue that they have all of the information they need to target those using this method to bypass DRM if they decide to do so.

Thanks for the warning. I wouldn't have been able to see this as I am not a coder. I will continue to use my kindle ink device. Thought it sounded to good to be true.

ownedbycats · 05-13-2025, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rantanplan

Worst case is, Amazon waits a few months to maximize the amount of users they can ban, and then drop the hammer.

I see this likely happening. They track how many purchases made, how many are downloaded through this method. There might be a bump in purchases from people who don't have Kindle and have no other method to download books.

Amazon wants to make money. The best way is to lock into ecosystem. But wait until that initial bump in sales is gone.

Fabien C · 05-13-2025, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

I took at look at the new BookFab Kindle Converter program to see what I could find out about how it works. There is a caveat in what follows that since I did not actually run the program I may have missed something. Even so, based on my findings I have decided not to install or use this product.

How can you be sure of what you're saying without having installed and used the software?

jonathan2022 · 05-13-2025, 11:15 AM

Jhowell is a coder . So he can see the code in programs without installing

DNSB · 05-13-2025, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabien C

How can you be sure of what you're saying without having installed and used the software?

You take a look at the program to see what it does. This can involve decompiling the program, running it in a debugger, etc. Depending on how enthused DVDFab is about obfuscating their code, this can range from fairly easy to almost impossible.

jhowell · 05-13-2025, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabien C

How can you be sure of what you're saying without having installed and used the software?

As I expressed in the paragraph you quoted I am not sure. I wanted to provide my preliminary findings as soon as possible because of their potential impact on BookFab customers. I will continue to examine the software and will report anything further I find that might be of interest.

Quoth · 05-13-2025, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

…

BookFab uses a clever hack to avoid the need to crack the latest KFX DRM. It obtains the customer's credentials and Kindle for PC registration info and then communicates with Amazon's servers pretending to be the latest version of Kindle for PC. However unlike the real app, when it requests a book for download it indicates that it only supports older KFX DRM that has been cracked since 2021. Surprisingly that actually works. Amazon supplies the files that make up the book and then BookFab uses included code from DeDRM and my KFX Input plugin to do the rest of the work.

While that method does work it has some significant problems.

First, it communicates with Amazon's servers in a way that the actual Kindle app would never do. Once Amazon catches on to the glaring difference between the supposed app version and its supported DRM level it will be easy for them to detect when it is being used. And it won't be long since they will look into it once this workaround becomes better known.

Second, they will know exactly which customers are using it. It only works because it supplies Amazon's servers with the user's Amazon account credentials. Amazon will know who is in violation of the their terms of service and they could decide to terminate accounts in order to send a clear message to others who might do the same. In contrast DeDRM does not communicate with Amazon and so its use is invisible to them.

Third, because it only works if Amazon actually responds with obsolete DRM, this hack will be very easy for Amazon to block. Once they do Bookfab customers will be left without a working product for however long it takes them to either find a new clever hack or actually defeat the latest KFX DRM. That could be quite a while.

My highlights.

it's doomed. Even if only one of these was true, it's enough to avoid. The #2 item is very very bad, you might get banned.

Edit:
It may even stop working without Amazon noticing, as they are likely to end old KFX for K4PC anyway, as that is not the same as buying a Kindle.

MegDreamsofBooks · 05-13-2025, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathan2022

2 things. kindle for pc needs to be opened when converting. I think it only works with version 2 and upwards. so 2.3 or 2.4 . seems like a beta software. it did work for me and was quick. not sure why it needs 40 gig yet. comes in color and is smaller then kindle version.

Thanks for saying this, a previous post said K4PC didn't need to be open, but this definitely fixed my issue. Which support didn't even offer as a suggestion.

MegDreamsofBooks · 05-13-2025, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Thank you for the explanation on how BookFab works. Do you think Amazon may block the accounts of those using it once they catch on?

I am definitely operating under the assumption that using this tool puts my account at risk with Amazon sometime in the future. However, this is just my secondary/backup method for retrieving new* ebook purchases, because I always like to have two ways to do something. The e-ink Kindle method is still my primary method, as long as that remains available. I'm also making VERY sure that I have backups or alternate sources for all my digital content in my Amazon account (books and videos, mainly.)

*Amazon is my last source for acquiring ebooks, and mostly I only read Kindle Unlimited from them now, but I have a couple of authors I still like to buy their new books and they are Amazon exclusive so I don't have a choice.

DNSB · 05-13-2025, 02:53 PM

One acquaintance of mine since they only plan to use this tool with new ebooks has created a throwaway Amazon account funded by gift cards for those purchases. If Amazon decides to cancel that account, they've lost nothing since all the book purchases will be downloaded and saved. Currently we have a bet whether his K4A or BookFab install will stop working first.

Sirtel · 05-13-2025, 10:34 PM

Personally I'm not going to pay that much for a method that could stop working any time. I buy much less from Amazon than I used to and for those relatively few new purchases I can't download with Kindle for PC I use an old eink Kindle.

But overall I'm not going to shed any tears over Amazon. There are other vendors and other books.

05-13-2025, 08:29 AM	#2882
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,179 Karma: 144286760 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Thank you for the explanation on how BookFab works. Do you think Amazon may block the accounts of those using it once they catch on? Last edited by JSWolf; 05-13-2025 at 08:33 AM.

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05-13-2025, 08:12 AM	#2881
jhowell Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,038 Karma: 91577715 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Charlottesville, VA Device: Kindles	I took at look at the new BookFab Kindle Converter program to see what I could find out about how it works. There is a caveat in what follows that since I did not actually run the program I may have missed something. Even so, based on my findings I have decided not to install or use this product. BookFab uses a clever hack to avoid the need to crack the latest KFX DRM. It obtains the customer's credentials and Kindle for PC registration info and then communicates with Amazon's servers pretending to be the latest version of Kindle for PC. However unlike the real app, when it requests a book for download it indicates that it only supports older KFX DRM that has been cracked since 2021. Surprisingly that actually works. Amazon supplies the files that make up the book and then BookFab uses included code from DeDRM and my KFX Input plugin to do the rest of the work. While that method does work it has some significant problems. First, it communicates with Amazon's servers in a way that the actual Kindle app would never do. Once Amazon catches on to the glaring difference between the supposed app version and its supported DRM level it will be easy for them to detect when it is being used. And it won't be long since they will look into it once this workaround becomes better known. Second, they will know exactly which customers are using it. It only works because it supplies Amazon's servers with the user's Amazon account credentials. Amazon will know who is in violation of the their terms of service and they could decide to terminate accounts in order to send a clear message to others who might do the same. In contrast DeDRM does not communicate with Amazon and so its use is invisible to them. Third, because it only works if Amazon actually responds with obsolete DRM, this hack will be very easy for Amazon to block. Once they do Bookfab customers will be left without a working product for however long it takes them to either find a new clever hack or actually defeat the latest KFX DRM. That could be quite a while.

05-13-2025, 11:15 AM	#2888
jonathan2022 Zealot Posts: 145 Karma: 213232 Join Date: Mar 2022 Device: android	Jhowell is a coder . So he can see the code in programs without installing

05-13-2025, 02:53 PM	#2894
DNSB Bibliophagist Posts: 44,906 Karma: 168802811 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Vancouver Device: Kobo Sage, Libra Colour, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos	One acquaintance of mine since they only plan to use this tool with new ebooks has created a throwaway Amazon account funded by gift cards for those purchases. If Amazon decides to cancel that account, they've lost nothing since all the book purchases will be downloaded and saved. Currently we have a bet whether his K4A or BookFab install will stop working first.

05-13-2025, 10:34 PM	#2895
Sirtel Grand Sorcerer Posts: 13,193 Karma: 237672155 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Estonia Device: Kobo Sage & Libra 2	Personally I'm not going to pay that much for a method that could stop working any time. I buy much less from Amazon than I used to and for those relatively few new purchases I can't download with Kindle for PC I use an old eink Kindle. But overall I'm not going to shed any tears over Amazon. There are other vendors and other books.

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