Ethics and legalities of format shifting

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Compared to?
For a "fine" reader, in my opinion, much more is required.
The OASIS has the buttons in the wrong places for me - if so, then I don't want them on the device, but on a remote control.
The lighting is poor compared to the smaller, but completely evenly lit Boox-Poke 2/3.
And then the biggest negative - I can practically only read Amazon books on it.
Etc.

You can read any book without DRM on it, not only Amazon books.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

You argue that one buys a licence, not a book. That licence is not transferrable. So you may not let someone else read it without breaking the terms of the licence.

This has even been confirmed by courts that licenses may be transferred.
I do not therefore need to go into the further incorrect conclusion.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

You can read any book without DRM on it, not only Amazon books.

epub? fb2?

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

epub? fb2?

You convert them.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

This has even been confirmed by courts that licenses may be transferred.
I do not therefore need to go into the further incorrect conclusion.

So you are saying that the terms of Amazon's e-book license are not enforceable?

Limitations. Unless specifically indicated otherwise, you may not sell, rent, lease, distribute, broadcast, sublicense, or otherwise assign any rights to the Kindle Content or any portion of it to any third party, and you may not remove or modify any proprietary notices or labels on the Kindle Content. In addition, you may not attempt to bypass, modify, defeat, or otherwise circumvent any digital rights management system or other content protection or features used as part of the Service.

[Gardenman]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

And yet anyone who uses more than one license per title, but has only paid for one, acts as license thief.
It is a fact. And I cannot think of them otherwise.

Who is being cheated?

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by jhowell

So you are saying that the terms of Amazon's e-book license are not enforceable?

Amazon is of course allowed to draw conclusions from the violation of the terms and conditions, but a license transfer is not an unlawful procedure, but it may only be used exclusively.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

You convert them.

It is against Laws!

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Amazon is of course allowed to draw conclusions from the violation of the terms and conditions, but a license transfer is not an unlawful procedure, but it may only be used exclusively.

Then why isn't there a market for used e-books?

If it was legal then I think someone would be making money off of it.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

It is against Laws!

You don't know that. Fair Use may trump these silly laws. Until it's gone to court, there is no way to know if Fair Use wins or these silly laws win.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

You are both wrong. Doing so is illegal.

When you sign up with Kobo, you agree to their terms and conditions. Break those conditions and your license to read the book is no longer valid.

One of their terms and conditions is that the licence is valid only for the person buying the licence. No-one else, not friend, not child, not spouse, is allowed to read the copy, even on a device authorised to the original purchaser's account.

I asked Kobo about this back in 2012. The full email chain (most recent first) is in the block at the end of this post.

I posted earlier on in this thread that John Scalzi was happy for his DRM free eBooks Redshirts to be loaned to a friend and even format shifted. That goes against Kobo's T&C. They say I cannot loan you a copy to read and the author says I can. I would say that the author trumps Kobo.

How can Kobo have such a blanket statement when does not apply to all the eBooks they sell? If Kobo was to deactivate my account because I was caght loaning a copy of Redshirts that I purchased from Kobo to you, I don't think any judge would find me guilty given that Scalzi said it's OK to do so and same goes for format shifting.

[Sarmat89]

Originally Posted by jhowell

So you are saying that the terms of Amazon's e-book license are not enforceable?

Parts of agreements that contradict the laws of the local jurisdiction are void.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Then why isn't there a market for used e-books?

Because both the license and the device / app are linked to one account.
And it is illegal to break this link without the publisher's consent

If it was legal then I think someone would be making money off of it.

It is not that easy.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Because both the license and the device / app are linked to one account.

Your argument has been found out, and you are dancing around the issue.

1) You only have a right to read a book with a valid license.
2) Breaking the terms of the license revokes your right to read the book.
3) Lending the book to someone else breaks the terms of the license.
4) People who read a book without a license are thieves.
4) You have lent books to other people.

Therefore, by your logic (not mine, to be clear, I am not saying I think you are a thief) you are a thief.

You can't argue that you are allowed to ignore the bits of the license you don't like, but other people aren't.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Your argument has been found out, and you are dancing around the issue.

1) You only have a right to read a book with a valid license.

Wrong - I can read everything, even without a license

2) Breaking the terms of the license revokes your right to read the book.

Wrong - I always have the right to read, regardless of whether I violate the license conditions or not

3) Lending the book to someone else breaks the terms of the license.

That might be possible

4) People who read a book without a license are thieves.

That is also not correct

4) You have lent books to other people.

Correct.

It is forbidden by law to manipulate the licensed file so that it can be read on devices that do not belong to the account - DRM removal.

And this manipulation enables the theft, which takes place when this modified file is also used on a device belonging to another account.

Then another license would have had to be bought.