Do Amazon and the Publishers want to Kill Digital Sales ? - Page 7

kennyc · 04-19-2016, 08:14 AM

Ah.....the typical American Corporation.
and I'm not joking...

MGlitch · 04-19-2016, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Sorry, but neither is quite true.

BPH margins are not thin. Their net runs in the double digits (which most businesses would kill for) despite vast inefficiencies and waste.

I meant the difference between ebook and pbook in terms of which brings in the most, not their overall profits.

kennyc · 04-19-2016, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGlitch

I meant the difference between ebook and pbook in terms of which brings in the most, not their overall profits.

But that's only because they have chosen to fight against ebooks in order to protect the status quo.

Phogg · 04-19-2016, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

But that's only because they have chosen to fight against ebooks in order to protect the status quo.

And that is working just as well for them as it has for the record companies.

kennyc · 04-19-2016, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phogg

And that is working just as well for them as it has for the record companies.

Exactly. Dinosaurs!

cvkemp · 04-19-2016, 11:03 AM

Here is my take on it. It all falls on the publishers, and in a lot of cases the authors. I know of a few authors that prefer to stop writing to allow their books to be released in ebooks. I also know of authors that would prefer only ebooks and not waste the environment printing on paper. In the long run it is going to be were the publishers can make their money.

Lemurion · 04-19-2016, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGlitch

The thing is that while the BPH's might not be adjusting as quickly as you'd like, they'll need to adjust at some point if the masses view their prices as too high. Or they'll go out of business, unless they can increase print sales to reclaim the lost profits of ebooks.

I've seen claims here that publishers should treat the editors, artists, and authors better. Including better royalties, and better overall pay. Yet I've also seen a fairly strong claim that ebook prices are, currently, too high.

These seem to me to be mutually exclusive if you accept that the profit margins on ebooks versus pbooks is, relatively, narrow, and consider that most BPH's release print and digital versions of their books. I'm not saying ebook sales should prop up pbooks, nor the other way around. Though big name authors do prop up new authors, and thus -book- sales prop up -book- sales.

I'd also point out that in the course of my lifetime mass market prices have risen maybe 4 dollars or so. At least from the earliest prices of books I can recall compared with the typical prices today. This is for the US market, I'm not sure how prices have fluctuated in other countries. But at that growth rate it's not even doubled in a number of decades. I think it can be argued that this price increase is roughly keeping up with inflation. And while I'm using mass markets, the cheapest of print books, ebook prices tend to fall to around the mass market price once the print book is released in that edition.

I think BPH's shoudl take the route of treating their staff and authors better. As well as accepting more new authors and releasing them only in digital. It may not get them as many sales as a print release would, but if the digital sales are significant they can consider doing a print run. This saves them some money, and puts them in a position to react quickly should the new author prove to be popular.

(emphasis mine)

The thing with mass market pricing is that while there has been a long period of relative stability, it was preceded by a period of what felt like extremely rapid price increases.

At the start of the 1970's, mass market books were about $1, and they roughly doubled by the end of the decade. By the end of the 1980's, they had approximately tripled again, going from roughly $2 to roughly $6.

Since then they've gone from $6 to $8-10 with the higher end being taken over by the taller "premium" size. So yes, while they haven't gone up that much over the last few decades, for me that's at least partially offset by how much they increased in the 80's.

Cinisajoy · 04-19-2016, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemurion

(emphasis mine)

The thing with mass market pricing is that while there has been a long period of relative stability, it was preceded by a period of what felt like extremely rapid price increases.

At the start of the 1970's, mass market books were about $1, and they roughly doubled by the end of the decade. By the end of the 1980's, they had approximately tripled again, going from roughly $2 to roughly $6.

Since then they've gone from $6 to $8-10 with the higher end being taken over by the taller "premium" size. So yes, while they haven't gone up that much over the last few decades, for me that's at least partially offset by how much they increased in the 80's.

Is it ONLY paperbacks that did that or most goods?
If the latter then it is just economics in general.

gweeks · 04-19-2016, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Is it ONLY paperbacks that did that or most goods?
If the latter then it is just economics in general.

Paperbacks are significantly more expensive than general inflation. Somewhere I posted about this, but I don't remember where. I took several books from the 50's, 60's and 70's and ran the cover prices through an inflation calculator. Just given inflation a paperback should be about $5 now. I never did get to doing it for hard covers. Inflation calculators are easy to find. Plug in the year the book was published and the cover price and it spits out what today’s price would be.

Greg

Cinisajoy · 04-19-2016, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gweeks

Paperbacks are significantly more expensive than general inflation. Somewhere I posted about this, but I don't remember where. I took several books from the 50's, 60's and 70's and ran the cover prices through an inflation calculator. Just given inflation a paperback should be about $5 now. I never did get to doing it for hard covers. Inflation calculators are easy to find. Plug in the year the book was published and the cover price and it spits out what today’s price would be.

Greg

Thanks Greg.

kennyc · 04-19-2016, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gweeks

Paperbacks are significantly more expensive than general inflation. Somewhere I posted about this, but I don't remember where. I took several books from the 50's, 60's and 70's and ran the cover prices through an inflation calculator. Just given inflation a paperback should be about $5 now. I never did get to doing it for hard covers. Inflation calculators are easy to find. Plug in the year the book was published and the cover price and it spits out what today’s price would be.

Greg

My only comment to that is that 'general inflation' is an average. It might be more appropriate to compare to other entertainment markets.

Lemurion · 04-19-2016, 12:18 PM

The calculations are interesting. I just spent some quality time with an inflation calculator myself. In general, the price increases seem to have outpaced inflation during the 80's, but have stayed below it since about 1990. The only catch is that the 80's bump was so significant that despite 25 years of lower than inflation price increases, paperback prices have still outpaced inflation overall.

Manabi · 04-19-2016, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemurion

The calculations are interesting. I just spent some quality time with an inflation calculator myself. In general, the price increases seem to have outpaced inflation during the 80's, but have stayed below it since about 1990. The only catch is that the 80's bump was so significant that despite 25 years of lower than inflation price increases, paperback prices have still outpaced inflation overall.

I did that too, that bump in the 1980s was huge!

If they had kept going up at that rate, they'd probably cost $30 for a paperback now.

gweeks · 04-19-2016, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

My only comment to that is that 'general inflation' is an average. It might be more appropriate to compare to other entertainment markets.

I have no data, but I suspect they show worse that most of the rest of entertainment. Recorded music has gotten significantly cheaper. Try comparing video games from the 70's and 80's with modern ones and they used to be much more expensive. VHS/Betamax to DVD/Blueray has gotten cheaper. In theatre presentation of movies maybe. Concerts have gotten more expensive I think, but again I don't have any data to be sure.

Greg

Lemurion · 04-19-2016, 01:17 PM

Well, if you compare comic books, paperbacks have become a huge relative steal. I started buying comics in 1974 when they had just gone up to $0.20 each. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $0.97 today.

Most new comics now cost $3.99, with one publisher (DC) trying to bring them back to $2.99. Admittedly, the industry has changed a lot since then, moving from cheap mass publications to more of a boutique/specialty model, but it's a huge relative increase from the perspective of someone buying them just to read about superheroes.

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04-19-2016, 08:14 AM	#91
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,930 Karma: 119747553 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2 & PW, Onyx Boox Go6	Ah.....the typical American Corporation. and I'm not joking...

04-19-2016, 11:03 AM	#96
cvkemp Loving life Posts: 1,431 Karma: 7991496 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hot Springs Village, Arkansas Device: PaperWhite 6 SE, Fire HD8	Here is my take on it. It all falls on the publishers, and in a lot of cases the authors. I know of a few authors that prefer to stop writing to allow their books to be released in ebooks. I also know of authors that would prefer only ebooks and not waste the environment printing on paper. In the long run it is going to be were the publishers can make their money.

04-19-2016, 12:18 PM	#102
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	The calculations are interesting. I just spent some quality time with an inflation calculator myself. In general, the price increases seem to have outpaced inflation during the 80's, but have stayed below it since about 1990. The only catch is that the 80's bump was so significant that despite 25 years of lower than inflation price increases, paperback prices have still outpaced inflation overall.

04-19-2016, 01:17 PM	#105
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	Well, if you compare comic books, paperbacks have become a huge relative steal. I started buying comics in 1974 when they had just gone up to $0.20 each. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $0.97 today. Most new comics now cost $3.99, with one publisher (DC) trying to bring them back to $2.99. Admittedly, the industry has changed a lot since then, moving from cheap mass publications to more of a boutique/specialty model, but it's a huge relative increase from the perspective of someone buying them just to read about superheroes.