Let's reinvent the bookstore...

[meeera]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Have we reached the point in social intercourse that we cannot wait 10 minutes for a book to be printed?

The point was that if each book takes 10 minutes to print, queues would be hours long. How many books does a bookstore sell in a day? And what if you're buying 20 books? POD just sounds incredibly impractical for any sort of scaling. If you want instant access to everything, that's what e-reading is for.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Have we reached the point in social intercourse that we cannot wait 10 minutes for a book to be printed?

But you wouldn't only have to wait 10 minutes. If you among the first people in the bookshop in the morning, and there were 5 people at the checkout in front of you buying only 1 book each, you'd be waiting an hour. If there were 20 books waiting to be printed ahead of yours, you'd be waiting three and a half hours. It just wouldn't work. Even if the bookshop printed 24h a day, and the printer worked perfectly, you could only print 144 books a day. That's not very many for even a moderately successful bookshop.

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I certainly wouldn't want that. I'd have to drive into town twice, pay two lots of car park charges, etc. Far too much time and money involved. If I go to a bookshop it's because I want a book there and then.

I should clarify we have a major shopping centre about 5 minutes walk from out house.
It's absolutely no problem for me to come back the next day.

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Have we reached the point in social intercourse that we cannot wait 10 minutes for a book to be printed? If you won't wait 10 minutes for a book that will give you a lifetime of pleasure, how do you manage to wait so much longer for your food to arrive at non-fast food restaurants, the pleasure of which (assuming the food is any good) lasts but moments?

Erm, I stated in that post i WOULDN'T have a problem waiting up to 24 hours for a book to be printed.
So no need for your shock, horror, disappointment in the human race etc...
Or at least not from MY behaviour in regards to this.

I wouldn't want to wait for more than 24 hours as I could just order a book from amazon and get it the next day anyway for less effort, so it makes the point of a book binding machine pointless.

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But you wouldn't only have to wait 10 minutes. If you among the first people in the bookshop in the morning, and there were 5 people at the checkout in front of you buying only 1 book each, you'd be waiting an hour. If there were 20 books waiting to be printed ahead of yours, you'd be waiting three and a half hours. It just wouldn't work. Even if the bookshop printed 24h a day, and the printer worked perfectly, you could only print 144 books a day. That's not very many for even a moderately successful bookshop.

But it IS good for say out of print books or rare books or just books that are out of stock at the time and people might be willing to wait for a few days to get a book printed then.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by danskmacabre

I should clarify we have a major shopping centre about 5 minutes walk from out house.
It's absolutely no problem for me to come back the next day.

Whereas for me, my nearest decent bookshops are a big city (Manchester) about 40 minutes' drive away, with expensive car-parking charges .

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by danskmacabre

But it IS good for say out of print books or rare books or just books that are out of stock at the time and people might be willing to wait for a few days to get a book printed then.

Definitely. But one can (and I do, quite often) order POD books from Amazon. The benefits of the physical bookshop when it comes to ordering things for later delivery are difficult to see.

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Whereas for me, my nearest decent bookshops are a big city (Manchester) about 40 minutes' drive away, with expensive car-parking charges .

Agreed, it's not for everyone, but then it doesn't have to be.

[danskmacabre]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Definitely. But one can (and I do, quite often) order POD books from Amazon. The benefits of the physical bookshop when it comes to ordering things for later delivery are difficult to see.

Yes it's not perfect, but then there could be other reasons as well.
Such as people may already be at the bookstore or shopping centre or shopping precinct.

It could be potentially cheaper than online alternatives (maybe I don't know for sure).

Some people just aren't comfortable putting their financial details online (especially with these days the amount of site hacking going on).

A loyalty thing as well could be generated out of it, many people aren't ready for the physical shop to die.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But you wouldn't only have to wait 10 minutes. If you among the first people in the bookshop in the morning, and there were 5 people at the checkout in front of you buying only 1 book each, you'd be waiting an hour. If there were 20 books waiting to be printed ahead of yours, you'd be waiting three and a half hours. It just wouldn't work. Even if the bookshop printed 24h a day, and the printer worked perfectly, you could only print 144 books a day. That's not very many for even a moderately successful bookshop.

Where POD fits in the (potential) B&M bookstore of the near future is in extending the store's catalog, avoiding the weeks and even months of wait for "special order" titles (aka, "if you really prefer to pay full list and wait weeks on end instead of ordering online, we'll grudgingly take your money" books), and allowing an in-store pickup for online orders.

You are correct that a bookstore cannot run solely off POD but POD can be part of the equation. Partly because the bulk of bookstore sales in any given day (say 80%) is new titles and the frontlist titles they are paid to promote. That is, after all, why supermarkets and discount department stores have been squeezing bookstores since before the Age of Amazon.

It's the shelf space version of the Pareto Principle, more or less. With the nasty side effect that the 80% slow movers clogging the shelves are the store's reason for existing. The 20% cash cows can be had anywhere, without the added overhead burden of the midlist/backlist. Theoretically, that is where POD fits in, trading off the capital expense of the devices for reduced floorspace (and way lower rent), an actual online presence that makes sense, and higher backlist sales.

It *could* work.
We'll more as the ongoing experiments play out.

BTW, how slow (or fast) are B&M special orders in the UK?
Are the publisher fulfillment process any better than in the US?
Inquiring minds and all that.
Plus, it impacts the POD value proposition.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

BTW, how slow (or fast) are B&M special orders in the UK?
Are the publisher fulfillment process any better than in the US?
Inquiring minds and all that.
Plus, it impacts the POD value proposition.

It takes an eternity - weeks. Or at least that was the case the last time I used such a service, which was many years ago. That's why Amazon is such a godsend.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Whereas for me, my nearest decent bookshops are a big city (Manchester) about 40 minutes' drive away, with expensive car-parking charges .

That sounds like a more B&N type situation. Few stores, bigger, but farther apart to give each store enough of a regional "draw distance" to balance out the books. So to speak.

The small storefront+POD concept is conceived more as the old-school mythical neighborhood bookstore (which in the US never existed outside NYC and other big cities, if at all) or, more realistically, a suburban strip mall chain that brings bookstores within a few miles of the target consumers. As a chain store model the stores wouldn't be as abundant as Starbucks (unless they were co-located ) but there would be more than just a few hundred to serve the entire US. In suburban driving time terms, figure 10-15 minute drives at worst.

Instead of trying to draw consumers in from large distances, a POD-enhanced store would effectively pre-position the books close to where the buyers are. Like placing lots of medical facilities near retirement communities or auto parts stores near dealers.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It takes an eternity - weeks. Or at least that was the case the last time I used such a service, which was many years ago. That's why Amazon is such a godsend.

Thought so!
So it's not the distance from the publisher to the bookstore but the publisher internal processes.
(Over here it hasn't gotten any better in the decades since UPS emerged as an enabler of online retail so I assumed the delays were at the publisher.)

Thanks.
It helps fill out the picture.

[HarryT]

POD definitely has a part to play with old or obscure books. I'm doing a part-time degree in Egyptology, and a number of the books I've bought for the course have been POD facsimile editions of very old books which it simply wouldn't be otherwise economic to keep in print. It's ideal for such things, but not for popular bestsellers.

[LovesMacs]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

What if books could be like pizza? You order a book, it's printed up and someone delivers it to your door? Have a book in your hands in under 1 hour from the time you order.

I think independent bookstores can survive, but they can't be all things to all people. They have to be very much attuned to the local market.

What if you take this a step further: a physical bookstore plus website offering local delivery for POD books. Like something that's not in stock? Order it in the store or on the website, and get a physical book faster than what Amazon or other online retailers can match.