Table formatting

[Rob Vollman]

Originally Posted by BobC

If you started with ODT you would probably get a cleaner* EPUB by using either the Writer2Epub extension for OOO or the Writer2xhtml add-on from http://writer2latex.sourceforge.net/

I actually tried that extension first. Unfortunately it didn't work, and wouldn't produce an epub file. Calibre and Sigil both worked right away.

[Rob Vollman]

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

Yeah. The main reason that anything beyond a very simple table doesn't work well in an eBook is that there just isn't enough screen width. If you KNOW your book will only be read on a larger-screen device, why bother with eBook format at all? eBook is about pouring text into different-sized containers. If it's ALWAYS going to be read on e.g. an iPad you might as well take full control of layout and make a PDF.

Because if you put it in eBook format you can sell it on Amazon, on the App store, and so on. Some people only read books on eReaders like Kobo and Kindle, so you need ePub (and Mobi) format.

I do have a PDF version too though. That one has tables, charts, illustrations, etc.

[st_albert]

Originally Posted by Rob Vollman

I actually tried that extension first. Unfortunately it didn't work, and wouldn't produce an epub file. Calibre and Sigil both worked right away.

Yes, ISTR that one (or both?) of them don't handle tables. Fortunately for me, I rarely have to deal with tables, so it isn't a limitation in my case.

[exaltedwombat]

Originally Posted by Rob Vollman

Because if you put it in eBook format you can sell it on Amazon, on the App store, and so on. Some people only read books on eReaders like Kobo and Kindle, so you need ePub (and Mobi) format.

I do have a PDF version too though. That one has tables, charts, illustrations, etc.

So you need a layout without wide tables.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

When I was making this book with play-script formatting I had trouble getting text (the character name) to top-align in its table cell. Styling via stylesheet worked in everything except Kindle for iPad. DOES anyone read Kindle books on iPad? Is the app broken?

To be honest, I'm not certain if the iPad Kindle app supports KF8 yet. It wasn't all that long ago that it still didn't.

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

Before getting the job, I was asked to submit a sample page demonstrating that I could deliver the required layout. Suggesting alternatives just hits a brick wall in these cases.

You mean someone's not immediately receptive to your "just pouring text into a container" analogy? How odd ... especially considering how everybody here was so quickly won over by your "ebooks should just be text-buckets" philosophy.

[exaltedwombat]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

To be honest, I'm not certain if the iPad Kindle app supports KF8 yet. It wasn't all that long ago that it still didn't.


You mean someone's not immediately receptive to your "just pouring text into a container" analogy? How odd ... especially considering how everybody here was so quickly won over by your "ebooks should just be text-buckets" philosophy.

Well, if you want portability across a range of reader devices and sales platforms, what alternative do you suggest? Sure, you can enjoy yourself constructing intricate layouts for personal use. But authors want it to work EVERYWHERE. And don't want to pay two or three times for two or three customised versions.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

Well, if you want portability across a range of reader devices and sales platforms, what alternative do you suggest? Sure, you can enjoy yourself constructing intricate layouts for personal use. But authors want it to work EVERYWHERE. And don't want to pay two or three times for two or three customised versions.

I'm not suggesting any alternatives. I'm merely amused by the fact that your advice to people experiencing problems with formatting issues is always along the lines of; "don't do that" and very little else. Yet here you come looking for alternatives on how to achieve something you would normally blow off as something that shouldn't be done -- were anyone else asking the question.

[exaltedwombat]

Absolutely! But now and again someone comes up with a neat method that DOES work across a lot of devices and, when it does fail, fails gracefully. I'd love to be able to say "DO do that!" more.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

Absolutely! But now and again someone comes up with a neat method that DOES work across a lot of devices and, when it does fail, fails gracefully. I'd love to be able to say "DO do that!" more.

We drove ourselves nuts, a few years back, formatting a (godawful) screenplay that had been written in FirstDraft. The big issue was that the author had created a table-type format in which not one but two characters would be speaking simultaneously, so you had (essentially) four cells--the character names and then beneath them, the dialogue. I forget all of it now, but he had s**tfits if the dialogue wasn't x characters to the (left or right or whatever) of the character name, etc. If I explained the phenomena of what happened when font sizes were enlarged once, I did it twenty times. To no avail. I have a longish ironic story as to how I lost this client, (he decided I was "too demanding," because I got angry after spending my entire weekend on his "rush" manuscript, when he popped up on Monday with a completely new manuscript--and this was the initial print layout, mind you).

We've done plays and screenplays since then, but I don't jump through those hoops any longer. Either they understand the limitations upfront, or we don't take the job. I send them to view a book on Amazon that has a sample in it, and that's the format--take it or leave it. Between screenplays/plays and poetry, life is just too short. I'm all for doing whatever possible to give a book that extra "something," but not when we're killing ourselves for less than the price of a cut-and-color in Los Angeles, and the gig resembles something that should have Lalo Schiffrin music and, God help us all, Tom Cruise trying to accomplish it.

Hitch

[DaleDe]

I call those sissyfits.

Dale

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

I call those sissyfits.

Dale

Hitch

[crutledge]

I have had much trouble with tables on readers. I now find a good representation of the table in html and use a screen capture to convert it to an image. I have also found that the GIF format seems best for reproducing text. Images always work on readers.

[Notjohn]

Originally Posted by crutledge

I have had much trouble with tables on readers. I now find a good representation of the table in html and use a screen capture to convert it to an image. I have also found that the GIF format seems best for reproducing text. Images always work on readers.

Are you publishing on the Kindle platform? The HD tablets (especially the 8.9 inch model but also significant on the Fire HD) render images in their actual size, so if you follow the 600x800 standard, the image is smaller than it need be. (It will zoom, but I'm not convinced that every reader knows that.) Do you ignore that, upload a larger image, or specify a relative width (or height)?

[crutledge]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

Are you publishing on the Kindle platform? The HD tablets (especially the 8.9 inch model but also significant on the Fire HD) render images in their actual size, so if you follow the 600x800 standard, the image is smaller than it need be. (It will zoom, but I'm not convinced that every reader knows that.) Do you ignore that, upload a larger image, or specify a relative width (or height)?

I think that we must assume that the reader knows how to use his/her device. All of the kindles I have used have provisions to enlarge an image to fill the screen. I know of no way to selecitvely force any device to fill the the screen that will work in all cases.

Personally, I dislike tables.