Buy vs licence in another media type

[murraypaul]

Consumers buying retail DVD/BDROM games for the newly announced Microsoft XBox One will not be able to resell them, or give them away, without the new owner paying nearly full retail price for the privilege of actually being able to play them.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publi...retail/0116137

Is this the future of eBook resale? A retailer-brokered market, where the publishers take a cut of each sale?

I doubt that ebook resale will ever come to be because it has to be brokered by a third party in order to ensure that there is a transfer of goods. Vendors will never allow third parties to resell their ebooks. Vendors and publishers will also demand such a large cut that it won't be worthwhile to the consumer.

My real concern with the XBox One story though is that they are selling a physical product but only offering the rights conferred with a digital product. This will create confusion among some consumers and I have no confidence that prices will be lowered to reflect the reduction in rights that consumers are receiving.

[elemenoP]

When I heard about this, I was also wondering about the implications for ebook resale. On the one hand, it sucks for video games owners! On the other hand, this is something that ebook owners have argued for: it WOULD be possible to legally sell or trade used ebooks, if there were a mechanism in place for it. So could this set a precedent for such a mechanism?

And about the blurring of physical product and licensing: this news comes RIGHT after Adobe announced that their flagship products will be "cloud only." You run the software on your own computer (not in the cloud), but you RENT the software. Your computer has to connect to Adobe's servers roughly every 30 days, to make sure you're paid up. If not, your software stops working! No more access to your own files! This has been a huge brouhaha on other message boards* (and I am one who uses Adobe products professionally and I'm burning mad about it).

eP

*Hi Glen Barrington!

[Fluribus]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

I doubt that ebook resale will ever come to be because it has to be brokered by a third party in order to ensure that there is a transfer of goods. Vendors will never allow third parties to resell their ebooks. Vendors and publishers will also demand such a large cut that it won't be worthwhile to the consumer.

My real concern with the XBox One story though is that they are selling a physical product but only offering the rights conferred with a digital product. This will create confusion among some consumers and I have no confidence that prices will be lowered to reflect the reduction in rights that consumers are receiving.

I have often seen downloadable games for Xbox and PS3 selling for 2 or 3 times the price that I paid for the game on disc. Removing the normal used game market will likely mean less downward pressure on prices.

Fortunately, book publishers don't have the ability to apply DRM to physical books. Printing a unique code into each book. Requiring an internet connection that voids the code and locks the book to your retinal print. The next reader will only see a message that the book cannot be read without purchasing a new code.

I've got maybe 100 Xbox 360 games. Probably less than 10 of them were bought used. I will be not be buying the next Xbox. Maybe I'll break out the Xbox 359 when I run out of 360 games.

I guess you could say that I'm a trifle miffed.

[jersysman]

I see this as another instance by big business to show how little they really care about consumer rights.

[Ninjalawyer]

Game companies are putting pressure on Sony and Microsoft to do this because they don't seem to realize that a robust used market supports the new market. People frequently trade in games towards a new game that they would not have otherwise bought. This has allowed game makers to keep the prices of new games higher longer than they otherwise could have because people can subsidize new games with their old games. Being able to trade in a game also makes it more valuable to the buyer, which in turn supports the high price of new games.

People will often point to Steam and say that Valve has been doing for years what Microsoft and Sony are getting crucified for wanting to do now. The differences though is that Steam provides much greater price flexibility, and someone can easily wait for a Steam Sale to grab a game at a steep discount to help make up for the value they've lost in buying a game that can't be resold.

By way of comparison, Microsoft's digital offerings don't see the same deep discounting. Often downloadable games on Xbox Live are still retailing for up to $40 or more when the PC version of the same game on Steam is on sale for $5.

There's also a trust aspect to all of this. If I'm going to buy a digital only game, I need to trust that I'm going to be able to redownload that game years in the future. I trust Steam because, in the 9 years of used it, I've never been unable to redownload a game I bought. On XboxLive, I have heard of games being taken off the service (and no longer available for redownload), and frankly I just don't trust Microsoft that much to maintain game servers far into the future.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

I doubt that ebook resale will ever come to be because it has to be brokered by a third party in order to ensure that there is a transfer of goods. Vendors will never allow third parties to resell their ebooks. Vendors and publishers will also demand such a large cut that it won't be worthwhile to the consumer.

Amazon could do this immediately.
They already have the ability to transfer a book temporarily with their lending service, that naturally extends to a resale model.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer

Game companies are putting pressure on Sony and Microsoft to do this because they don't seem to realize that a robust used market supports the new market. People frequently trade in games towards a new game that they would not have otherwise bought. This has allowed game makers to keep the prices of new games higher longer than they otherwise could have because people can subsidize new games with their old games. Being able to trade in a game also makes it more valuable to the buyer, which in turn supports the high price of new games.

I think the likely result, if this model is applied to all consoles going forwards, is the collapse of dedicated game retail shops. Second hand games are their highest margin products, and with those removed, I doubt they would still be profitable. (If there even are now.)
That would leave supermarkets/mainstream shops selling the current top-10 blockbusters, and everything else relegated to mail-order or digital downloads. Pretty soon it won't be worth producing a physical version of non-blockbuster games, and almost everything will be digital-only, which is just as the publishers prefer it, as they will have absolute price control and can prevent lending and reselling. It also naturally draws people into the digital market, where they can more easily be sold DLC, and eventually all games be vehicles for microtransactions.

[CyGuy]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Consumers buying retail DVD/BDROM games for the newly announced Microsoft XBox One will not be able to resell them, or give them away, without the new owner paying nearly full retail price for the privilege of actually being able to play them.

Anyone who falls for this should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. Seriously, just don't purchase the console or any games and let them eat the millions they invested. That should serve as a warning to other companies who are considering the same scam.

[JoeD]

I don't know if it's the future, but there's no way I'll consider the xbox 3 after the recent announcements.

Online Activation of all games, no lending to friends or playing on another console without signing your profile in, required to connect to the internet every 24 hours, lack of focus on games and more on tv, kinect hardware requirement (how long before they use this to spy on you watching a film and track how many viewers there are and when you lose attention then sell that on to movie studios?).

I'm hoping Sony don't go down this route. They've said they'll allow preowned but that could mean anything.

[paulsalter]

Originally Posted by JoeD

kinect hardware requirement (how long before they use this to spy on you watching a film and track how many viewers there are and when you lose attention then sell that on to movie studios?).

could be happening

http://kotaku.com/5958307/this-kinec...ense-violation

[Fluribus]

Originally Posted by paulsalter

could be happening

http://kotaku.com/5958307/this-kinec...ense-violation

When I saw that I wondered how much longer before your Xbox profile would be linked to your face. If you tried to let a friend log into your profile, he wouldn't be able to do it because the Kinect didn't recognize him.

[Fluribus]

And in awesomely awesome news of awesomeness, Sony bowers the loom on new DRM, required online check-ins, the all-seeing eye, and the all-hearing ear. Hate the Xbox One intrusions, and I do, then the PS4 is your console. And at a cheaper price.

Fun video where Sony explains used games in 22 seconds.

[soulfuldog]

Looks like Microsoft are going to end up losers here. Yes you may be able to do more with the Xbox, but the hoops they are including (restrictions on pre-owned games, the need for the console to connect to the internet every 24 hours etc), and also the price difference. Could be a return to being the Number 1 for Sony?

I have bought digital versions of games via Xbox Marketplace and that's fine, I know I can't resell them or buy them at 'pre-owned' prices. But for physical games on a disc that I buy? Restrictions on that is deal breaker.

I was never likely to buy any of the next-gen consoles within the first year of their release, but may have bought one at a later date. The restriction on pre-owned games means it's highly unlikely I will replace my Xbox 360 with another Microsoft console.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Fluribus

And in awesomely awesome news of awesomeness, Sony bowers the loom on new DRM, required online check-ins, the all-seeing eye, and the all-hearing ear. Hate the Xbox One intrusions, and I do, then the PS4 is your console. And at a cheaper price.

Fun video where Sony explains used games in 22 seconds.

Brilliant. Perhaps they really did learn something from the CD rootkit fiasco.