TechCrunch: Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by stonetools

As to Apple, this tablet was intended to get Amazon customers interested in getting movies, tv shows, video games, and apps from Amazon, so as to get them excited for when Amazon introduces its big brother next year. THAT's going to be Amazon's main weapon in it's attempt to break Apple's strangehold on the mobile video/games/ apps market

To use boxing parlance, the 7 incher is Amazon's left jab that sets things up for the big right cross aimed at Apple's chin next year

+1. Even for people who don't buy the 7" Kindle tablet, this will surely generate more consumer awareness than outright release of a 10-incher.

[wallcraft]

I don't see how Amazon can price this at $250, unless they are supply contained before Christmas and so marking up the price. The Nook Color is $250, but it is more than a year old. My guess is that the Nook Color 2, likely out before Christmas, will be closer to $200. The Lenovo (Lenovo 7" Android Gingerbread 8GB $200 16GB $250) will be $200 for more hardware (GPS, Camera), and this includes a mark-up for retailer profit that Amazon does not incur.

On the other hand, an included Prime membership is a $79 "value" if you need it.

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Amazon was never in a fight with Apple. ANDROID FANS were in a fight with Apple .
As far as Amazon is concerned it will work with Apple when its in its self -interest to do so.
It will fight against Apple when its in its self-interest to do so.
It will ignore Apple when its in its self interest to do so (which is most of the time).
You' re right, though, that Amazon and Apple are on a collision course. Amazon is playing the long game here, though.

Amazon might not be fighting Apple, but Apple sure is fighting Amazon. And winning.

The iPad and the Agency pricing deal it forced was the first blow. A pretty major one. Thanks to pricing being the same, there is basically no reason to ever buy an e-book from Amazon any more (other than it being Amazon).

Amazon hasn't done anything to fight back. As I said, this move clearly shows they aren't even going to try, and just fight with B&N over Apple's scraps.

Indeed, all Amazon seems to be doing lately is reacting to moves other companies are making. Apple walloped them with the iPad, and B&N outflanked them with the Nook Color.

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

+1. Even for people who don't buy the 7" Kindle tablet, this will surely generate more consumer awareness than outright release of a 10-incher.

Yes, but for the most part, people are underwhelmed. A severely gimped and underpowered 7" tablet for the same price as a Nook Color isn't going to turn many heads, unless they are hardcore Amazon fans. Especially if the full sized one costs as much as an iPad and is much weaker...

[SensualPoet]

Originally Posted by TimW

It seems that Penguin CA (perhaps other publishers?) have removed their books from Amazon, as noted in this article from the Vancouver Sun. In the picture, you'll notice the wording "This title has been removed from sale by Penguin Group, USA." There are rumors afoot that the Canadian government is offering incentives for publishers to only sell through Chapters/Indigo. I won't speculate as to the truthfulness of this rumor.]

Authors and publishers have been negotiating territory rights for decades; digital content has made this a little trickier but it is driven by the publisher, not the bookseller, to get it right. That's all there was to the Penguin Canada issue.

Suggesting the Canadian government is offering "incentives" to sell books only through Chapters is just downright bizarre. The publishing crowd in Canada is heavily influenced and lobbied by the independents and Chapters is quite unliked by that crowd. In any case, no incentives to foreign publishers made by the Canadian government to sell only through Chapters would survive public scrutiny ... and you can bet you handcrafted bookmarks any such arrangement would be made public almost instantly.

[joenunya]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Amazon might not be fighting Apple, but Apple sure is fighting Amazon. And winning.

The iPad and the Agency pricing deal it forced was the first blow. A pretty major one. Thanks to pricing being the same, there is basically no reason to ever buy an e-book from Amazon any more (other than it being Amazon).

Amazon hasn't done anything to fight back. As I said, this move clearly shows they aren't even going to try, and just fight with B&N over Apple's scraps.

Indeed, all Amazon seems to be doing lately is reacting to moves other companies are making. Apple walloped them with the iPad, and B&N outflanked them with the Nook Color.

It is not as if the only books on Amazon are Agency books. There are a LOT of other publishers there too. Sure those might control a majority of the publishing industry in general, another issue I have in itself, but that could begin to change.

Also, Apple has all but shown they want out of the content business save maybe music as it's pretty established. What they seem to want is to let everyone provide content to the consumer via iTunes store and get their "protection" fee. Apple wants all the profit with none of the overhead in maintaining the content licencing. I don't have a link but there were a couple articles I've read over the past month which made some solid observations that Apple is indeed inching away from actually providing the content, preferring instead to let others carry the water. Apple is moving to making themselves just a conduit for content.

Time will tell though and I don't see Apple fading away nor do I see Amazon doing the same. Both seem to be trying for the same customers but using very different angles of attack.

[soondai]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

I don't see how Amazon can price this at $250, unless they are supply contained before Christmas and so marking up the price. The Nook Color is $250, but it is more than a year old. My guess is that the Nook Color 2, likely out before Christmas, will be closer to $200. The Lenovo (Lenovo 7" Android Gingerbread 8GB $200 16GB $250) will be $200 for more hardware (GPS, Camera), and this includes a mark-up for retailer profit that Amazon does not incur.

On the other hand, an included Prime membership is a $79 "value" if you need it.

Totally agree. 200 is where I'd jump with no hesitation.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Yes, but for the most part, people are underwhelmed. A severely gimped and underpowered 7" tablet for the same price as a Nook Color isn't going to turn many heads, unless they are hardcore Amazon fans. Especially if the full sized one costs as much as an iPad and is much weaker...

Ah, but you see, it's only the techies who nitpick about the features and state-of-the art hardware. The mainstream folks just want something that's easy to use and works well for their purpose at a price they can afford. You don't have to be a hardcore Amazon fan to appreciate the ease of use Amazon products provide. Heck, I believe that's how the original Kindle became a hit even though they're using a new, proprietary DRM and lots of people on the web were lamenting the fact that it doesn't support ePub.

By the way, last I checked, the Nook's app store pales in comparison to Amazon's and I don't believe they have the music and video cloud services that the new Kindle will have. Besides, it's not like the $250 price is set in stone. Amazon could still lower that (probably depending on Nook Color pricing).

[taming]

Originally Posted by TimW

It seems that Penguin CA (perhaps other publishers?) have removed their books from Amazon, as noted in this article from the Vancouver Sun. In the picture, you'll notice the wording "This title has been removed from sale by Penguin Group, USA." There are rumors afoot that the Canadian government is offering incentives for publishers to only sell through Chapters/Indigo. I won't speculate as to the truthfulness of this rumor.

This is not the first time Penguin and Amazon have been at odds over pricing. Search on Penguin and Amazon and see all the posts and noise about the 2010 fight between the two.

My best guess (and it is only a guess) is that Penguin would rather fight with Amazon over Canadian sales, than over sales to the US. I have noticed that Penguin sales in Canada through Kobo have gotten very expensive--$20 and $21 pricing for books that have been out for several years.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

I realize there are different markets. However, given the stranglehold the iPad has on the high-end, tablet manufacturers need to do something drastic in order to get their products into people's hands - and if they want to turn a profit at the same time, HP's firesale isn't the way to do it.

If I buy Amazon's low end tablet and am pleased by it; why would I want to waste money buying their high end tablet the next time around?

[TimW]

Originally Posted by taming

This is not the first time Penguin and Amazon have been at odds over pricing. Search on Penguin and Amazon and see all the posts and noise about the 2010 fight between the two.

My best guess (and it is only a guess) is that Penguin would rather fight with Amazon over Canadian sales, than over sales to the US. I have noticed that Penguin sales in Canada through Kobo have gotten very expensive--$20 and $21 pricing for books that have been out for several years.

Yes, I'm aware Penguin and Amazon have fought over pricing. There were a few weeks in the spring of 2010 when there were no Penguin books sold at Amazon in the US store. If Penguin has raised ebook prices on Kobo recently, the non-availability of Penguin books on Amazon in Canada may be just another pricing squabble. The only place I've heard the protectionist claims was on Amazon's discussion boards. I've searched for any information to corroborate it and I've not discovered anything so far.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

I don't see how Amazon can price this at $250, unless they are supply contained before Christmas and so marking up the price. The Nook Color is $250, but it is more than a year old. My guess is that the Nook Color 2, likely out before Christmas, will be closer to $200. The Lenovo (Lenovo 7" Android Gingerbread 8GB $200 16GB $250) will be $200 for more hardware (GPS, Camera), and this includes a mark-up for retailer profit that Amazon does not incur.

On the other hand, an included Prime membership is a $79 "value" if you need it.

Lenovo is in the "cheap Android tablet" game ( so far a game with no winners, but techies really like it). Amazon is in the " Amazon experience" game. The success of the iPad has shown beyond all doubt that providing an integrated ecosystem in which hardware, software and content are all tightly bound together with maximum convenience , smoothness and security is what consumers want. Hardware specs and price are secondary. Amazon wants to provide the "Amazon experience" just like Apple won by providing the "Apple Ios experience. "

My guess is that NC2 will have the same price, but better specs, just like the iPad2 in relation to the iPad1.

[Zoshka]

I think one danger for the Amazon tablet is Apple coming out with a Retina-type display for the next ipad, which for me would give a huge edge to the ipad over any other tablet, purely in terms of text readabilit. Of course it already has Amazon book support, Netflix, good email and browser, and all the rest. Smaller tablets are the worst of both worlds for me, heavier than eink devices and too small for easy browsing or double-page text, like on a real book. Having used my free year of student Amazon Prime, I didn't renew because I saw how much unnecessary stuff the free shipping led me to buy, including bulk coffee and cereal that are still sitting in my closet, so free Prime would be a liability for me overall.

The other danger is that Kindle users, including me, might feel they're being treated like second-class citizens as the eink device is virtually ignored, while BN, Kobo, and Sony come out with improved, lighter, devices.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Amazon might not be fighting Apple, but Apple sure is fighting Amazon. And winning.

The iPad and the Agency pricing deal it forced was the first blow. A pretty major one. Thanks to pricing being the same, there is basically no reason to ever buy an e-book from Amazon any more (other than it being Amazon).

Amazon hasn't done anything to fight back. As I said, this move clearly shows they aren't even going to try, and just fight with B&N over Apple's scraps.

Indeed, all Amazon seems to be doing lately is reacting to moves other companies are making. Apple walloped them with the iPad, and B&N outflanked them with the Nook Color.




Yes, but for the most part, people are underwhelmed. A severely gimped and underpowered 7" tablet for the same price as a Nook Color isn't going to turn many heads, unless they are hardcore Amazon fans. Especially if the full sized one costs as much as an iPad and is much weaker...

AS I said, Amazon is playing the long game. I think you are making the usual techie mistake of just comparing hardware specs and features. When it comes to tablets, you have to consider the ECOSYSTEM that its a part of. Amazon's ecosystem is far superior to that of B&N, which is why its tablet will be more attractive to the average consumer so long as it is close on features and price.
Compared with Apple, Amazon is offering a much cheaper tablet that is linked to an ecosystem that is many ways as good as Apple's (and in some ways better ). Its the combination of the great ecosystem and the lower price that Amazon is hoping that will be the big draw. You should understand that Amazon's chief goal here is not just hardware sales: it is using the HARDWARE to facilitate CONTENT sales. If Amazon ends up selling more content as a result of these tablets, Amazon wins

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by taming

This is not the first time Penguin and Amazon have been at odds over pricing. Search on Penguin and Amazon and see all the posts and noise about the 2010 fight between the two.

My best guess (and it is only a guess) is that Penguin would rather fight with Amazon over Canadian sales, than over sales to the US. I have noticed that Penguin sales in Canada through Kobo have gotten very expensive--$20 and $21 pricing for books that have been out for several years.

Very possible. I believe Amazon Canada is a separate company and can operate freely in Canada thanks to a favorable court decision last year. All these Agency agreements may need to be reworked for the Canadian market.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

If I buy Amazon's low end tablet and am pleased by it; why would I want to waste money buying their high end tablet the next time around?

Isn't that like saying if I have an iPod touch and am pleased by it, why should I waste money buying a Nook Color or a Kindle?


Lots of people start out by buying low end electronic devices, then upgrade over time.