DRM law and paper books

robbw · 05-16-2011, 10:38 PM

In the US, am I allowed to scan backups of my own hard- and paper-back books as backups? There are a handful of books that I own as hard copies that I'd love to read as ebooks. Can I scan my own hard copies, convert them and read them as ebooks?

Elfwreck · 05-16-2011, 11:26 PM

The law is incredibly blurry about this. However, if you do, and don't share/copy/distribute the ebooks to anyone else, nobody is going to come after you for this. I regularly scan & convert my own books to ebooks.

Most of us think this counts as fair use, under the same legal ruling that lets you record a TV show on VCR tape to watch later, or rip a CD to MP3s: time- and format-shifting have been ruled legal.

In some countries it's definitely illegal; in others, it's legal. In the US, it's unclear, but the practical answer is definitely "nobody who has the power to sue anyone else, cares."

kindlekitten · 05-16-2011, 11:27 PM

I am not an attorney

in my experience, in the US in general, making copies of material for your own use is permitted. do not distribute or make a profit from it, is the rule of thumb

Leyor · 05-16-2011, 11:33 PM

Without knowing the actual legality on it.

I think it'd fall into the same category as making a personal backup, it's in some instances allowed. You'd have to be very careful though as laws are being changed towards disallowing any type of replication over a certain quality level.

robbw · 05-17-2011, 12:05 AM

Thanks all, I thought a backup for personal use was likely OK. I appreciate your comments.

J. Strnad · 05-17-2011, 12:12 AM

If you make them for yourself, who else would ever know?

cromag · 05-17-2011, 12:41 AM

I'm not a lawyer, and there's always someone who wants to make a test case, but ...

Making a back-up for personal use is a generally regarded as fair use. The fact that you'll be making a digital copy shouldn't matter -- just like ripping a CD **that you own** to listen to on **your own** MP3 player.

Giggleton · 05-17-2011, 01:00 AM

And now we come to the question of what to do with the paper books now that they are no longer needed by the person who performed the conversion?

Is it now up to the person who performed the conversion to keep those printed books away from the prying eyes of the the rest of humanity? LUDICROUS!!!! Best to share everything with everyone and let the lawyers deal with it if they wish to, I will be reading.

cromag · 05-17-2011, 02:37 AM

The law IS clear on that point. The copy is yours as long as the original is yours. Give away the original and you have no legal right to the copy.

Worldwalker · 05-17-2011, 03:43 AM

Yeah, but remember you're talking to Giggles ... whoever he may really be.

neilmarr · 05-17-2011, 04:13 AM

Stricly speaking, scanning of a treebook still in copyright isn't allowed (see conditions page). But, as has been said, nobody's likely to know or to object if they did know ... just don't make a business of it. Best wishes. Neil

kindlekitten · 05-17-2011, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilmarr

Stricly speaking, scanning of a treebook still in copyright isn't allowed (see conditions page). But, as has been said, nobody's likely to know or to object if they did know ... just don't make a business of it. Best wishes. Neil

and once again, it depends on your country. I could do it here with no problem as long as it was for my personal use only

Giggleton · 05-17-2011, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cromag

The law IS clear on that point. The copy is yours as long as the original is yours. Give away the original and you have no legal right to the copy.

But I have already internalized the copy, am I obligated to forget the book's contents? Do you see that it starts to sound absurd? Imposing a practice of book deletion/burning??

DiapDealer · 05-17-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Do you see that it starts to sound absurd?

I do, I do. For the love of god, I surely do!

HansTWN · 05-18-2011, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Yeah, but remember you're talking to Giggles ... whoever he may really be.

Giggles is a troll sent by the publishing industry to highlight the absurdity of abolishing copyright.

05-16-2011, 10:38 PM	#1
robbw Connoisseur Posts: 60 Karma: 567618 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: K2, K3	DRM law and paper books In the US, am I allowed to scan backups of my own hard- and paper-back books as backups? There are a handful of books that I own as hard copies that I'd love to read as ebooks. Can I scan my own hard copies, convert them and read them as ebooks?

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05-16-2011, 11:26 PM	#2
Elfwreck Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,187 Karma: 25133758 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3 (Past: Kobo Mini, PEZ, PRS-505, Clié)	The law is incredibly blurry about this. However, if you do, and don't share/copy/distribute the ebooks to anyone else, nobody is going to come after you for this. I regularly scan & convert my own books to ebooks. Most of us think this counts as fair use, under the same legal ruling that lets you record a TV show on VCR tape to watch later, or rip a CD to MP3s: time- and format-shifting have been ruled legal. In some countries it's definitely illegal; in others, it's legal. In the US, it's unclear, but the practical answer is definitely "nobody who has the power to sue anyone else, cares."

05-16-2011, 11:27 PM	#3
kindlekitten Professional Adventuress Posts: 13,368 Karma: 50260224 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!) Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle	I am not an attorney in my experience, in the US in general, making copies of material for your own use is permitted. do not distribute or make a profit from it, is the rule of thumb

05-16-2011, 11:33 PM	#4
Leyor Ninja Librarian Posts: 179 Karma: 347750 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denmark Device: Sony PRS-950, Cybook 3. gen, Sony T1, Kindle Paperwhite	Without knowing the actual legality on it. I think it'd fall into the same category as making a personal backup, it's in some instances allowed. You'd have to be very careful though as laws are being changed towards disallowing any type of replication over a certain quality level.

05-17-2011, 12:05 AM	#5
robbw Connoisseur Posts: 60 Karma: 567618 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: K2, K3	Thanks all, I thought a backup for personal use was likely OK. I appreciate your comments.

05-17-2011, 12:12 AM	#6
J. Strnad Guru Posts: 915 Karma: 3537194 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kobo, Kindle 3, Paperwhite	If you make them for yourself, who else would ever know?

05-17-2011, 12:41 AM	#7
cromag Surfin the alpha waves ~~ Posts: 26,285 Karma: 459765791 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: New Jersey Device: Jetbook Lite & Mini, Nook STR, Kobo, Hanvon N516, Kindle 2, Androids	I'm not a lawyer, and there's always someone who wants to make a test case, but ... Making a back-up for personal use is a generally regarded as fair use. The fact that you'll be making a digital copy shouldn't matter -- just like ripping a CD that you own to listen to on your own MP3 player.

05-17-2011, 01:00 AM	#8
Giggleton Banned Posts: 1,687 Karma: 4368191 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Oregon Device: Kindle3	And now we come to the question of what to do with the paper books now that they are no longer needed by the person who performed the conversion? Is it now up to the person who performed the conversion to keep those printed books away from the prying eyes of the the rest of humanity? LUDICROUS!!!! Best to share everything with everyone and let the lawyers deal with it if they wish to, I will be reading.

05-17-2011, 02:37 AM	#9
cromag Surfin the alpha waves ~~ Posts: 26,285 Karma: 459765791 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: New Jersey Device: Jetbook Lite & Mini, Nook STR, Kobo, Hanvon N516, Kindle 2, Androids	The law IS clear on that point. The copy is yours as long as the original is yours. Give away the original and you have no legal right to the copy.

05-17-2011, 03:43 AM	#10
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	Yeah, but remember you're talking to Giggles ... whoever he may really be.

05-17-2011, 04:13 AM	#11
neilmarr neilmarr Posts: 7,215 Karma: 6000059 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Monaco-Menton, France Device: sony	Stricly speaking, scanning of a treebook still in copyright isn't allowed (see conditions page). But, as has been said, nobody's likely to know or to object if they did know ... just don't make a business of it. Best wishes. Neil