Massive wave of ebook piracy?

[GA Russell]

Originally Posted by MrPLD

Strictly speaking, I think it's very simple.
In short, you have no implied rights to anything anyone created outside of their stipulated terms. It's their work, their choice.

Paul, do you believe that society should respect the wishes of an author to restrict access to the literary work after his death?

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Kajti

Loads of people download stuff. You think we obsess over whether it's right? We told you up front: we don't care. If you care to spend time thinking about it, have fun, but most of us don't find it a worthwhile hobby.

Yet you keep trying to justify it.

[MrPLD]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Paul, do you believe that society should respect the wishes of an author to restrict access to the literary work after his death?

If it's still within copyright law, then yes. If however the author has written that he doesn't want his works released to public-domain beyond the expiration of the copyright law period then that's an interesting debate within itself. However authors produce their work knowing (or so they should!) that there will be an expiry of copyright, if they don't wish to write under those terms then perhaps they'd be better off keeping it locked in a safe.

Paul

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by MrPLD

If it's still within copyright law, then yes. If however the author has written that he doesn't want his works released to public-domain beyond the expiration of the copyright law period then that's an interesting debate within itself. However authors produce their work knowing (or so they should!) that there will be an expiry of copyright, if they don't wish to write under those terms then perhaps they'd be better off keeping it locked in a safe.

Paul

US copyright law is too long and needs to be reduced.

[GA Russell]

Paul, in post #223 you mentioned that the public has no moral right to the work. Now in post #243, you are willing to limit that to within the parameters of the copyright law.

But copyright laws can be changed. If the law is changed to state that all works become public domain upon the death of the author, would you agree that the public has the moral right to the work, regardless of the author's desire?

[MrPLD]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

US copyright law is too long and needs to be reduced.

Something that really needs to be taken up through the appropriate channels. Downloading pirate copies to voice one's disapproval is only more ammunition to the copyright holders stance (be it real or not).

Paul, in post #223 you mentioned that the public has no moral right to the work. Now in post #243, you are willing to limit that to within the parameters of the copyright law.

The problem with post #223 is that I implied "within the constraints of the law" rather than saying it. To which your next reply should be to remind me that morality and law are two rather separate things.

My best move is to replace the word "moral" to "legal" in post #223.

Paul.

[speakingtohe]

Yup. I'm willing to pay for what a data transfer should cost; I'm not willing to pay a price equal to the cost of a printed hardcover when all I'm getting is a few hundred Kb of data. Publishers need to better adjust their pricing models for the differing types of "books" - hardcover, trade, mass market, ebook, audiobook. If authors would set up PayPal accounts or whatever where folks could send money, I think it would be a smart idea on their part; not to mention it cuts out their middleman.

Sorry I should have specified contribute a user decided amount in the original post.
I have no problem with the user willing to pay only what they can afford or being congenialty thrifty.

Just curious on whether people would pay what to them amounts to a fair price or those who would, if given a chance and a little bit of jam, be out there stealing pension checks from mailboxes and blaming the check recipients for sleeping in and giving them the opportunity.

Helen

[sassanik]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

Yeah, the tipping point where piracy makes an impression on the minds of the big publishers is just months away, IMO. I don't know how long it'll take them to realize that the best defense is easily available ebooks at reasonable prices, concurrent with the printed version.

I fear you credit them with too much intelligence.


Amy

[GA Russell]

Originally Posted by MrPLD

My best move is to replace the word "moral" to "legal" in post #223.

Paul, I think that everyone would agree with your post #223 if you remove any sense of morality from it, and limit it to legal rights under current copyright law.

But then, what is the point of the comment?

I think that basing one's argument on the moral premise that the author deserves to be compensated for his work has merit. People who pirate just because they can evoke little sympathy.

But many here at MR feel that the current copyright laws extant in all (?) of the civilized world are unjust. So to say that the consumer has no legal right under an unjust law would be to encourage the response, "Yes! That's why the law is unjust! Therefore, it is morally permissible to pirate!"

It's late here, and I'm going to bed. My point is to say that I believe that the author's credible stance would be upon the moral argument that it is just for him to be paid, rather than upon the argument that anyone who disobeys a law is a bad person.

I know little about Australia that doesn't involve the Hawthorn Hawks! (By the way, congratulations on getting your first saint this week!) But here in the US, we have a long history of justifying the refusal to obey laws considered unjust going back to the Declaration of Independence. So it won't get a person far to condemn lawbreaking without showing that the law broken is a just one.

[lene1949]

Originally Posted by Kajti

Loads of people download stuff. You think we obsess over whether it's right? We told you up front: we don't care. If you care to spend time thinking about it, have fun, but most of us don't find it a worthwhile hobby.

Since you joined in '07 you have told us you pirate books, movies, music and TV shows... Good for you, since you obviously can't afford to pay for it... WE GET IT!

You come across as rebellious teenager.

[300com]

Originally Posted by Xanthe

Yup. I'm willing to pay for what a data transfer should cost; I'm not willing to pay a price equal to the cost of a printed hardcover when all I'm getting is a few hundred Kb of data. Publishers need to better adjust their pricing models for the differing types of "books" - hardcover, trade, mass market, ebook, audiobook. If authors would set up PayPal accounts or whatever where folks could send money, I think it would be a smart idea on their part; not to mention it cuts out their middleman.

I'd rather paypal my favorite author direct than buy from Barns and Noble. I feel like I'm personally saying thank you.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

Most people would like to be compensated in some way for their hard work, and authors are no different. I would like to think that most people would say to themselves, "If I spent six months or a year or ten years writing a book, would I want people to download it for free, or would I prefer that they pay me a few bucks?" and then act accordingly.

I would most definitely want all books to be in the public domain (or available using some creative commons license). So I act as I would like other people to act if I download some copy of a book that is still under copyright.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by lene1949

Since you joined in '07 you have told us you pirate books, movies, music and TV shows... Good for you, since you obviously can't afford to pay for it... WE GET IT!

It is usually not possible to pay for TV shows even if you want to if you do not live in the US. If you want to see them when they are originally broadcast.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

I think it's sad that so many people look to some outside force to determine their morality and their ethics. Maybe it's the government, going to arrest or fine them for misbehaving. Maybe it's God, going to punish them in the Hereafter. Maybe it's the Taliban, going to kill them for, I don't know, not wearing a burkha or some s**t. That's just sad, to me.

I would like to think that more people look at life and their behavior and society, etc., and make some internal choice to behave this way instead of that way, that they develop their own moral compass, that they at the very least follow some form of the golden rule, treating others as they would like to be treated.

Most people would like to be compensated in some way for their hard work, and authors are no different. I would like to think that most people would say to themselves, "If I spent six months or a year or ten years writing a book, would I want people to download it for free, or would I prefer that they pay me a few bucks?" and then act accordingly.

Apparently this level of empathy with others is far outweighed by self-centeredness in many people. Too bad, because this leads to a breakdown in the social contract, which leads to anarchy, in which these very same people find themselves the victims because somebody wants their stuff and has no qualms about taking it.

As much as we depend on police and such, the thing that really keeps us from behaving like a bunch of rabid monkeys is the social contract, which we willingly accept as being, ultimately, in our best interest. Because some people don't buy into the social contract is why we have police and courts and jails and guys named Cheech who break kneecaps with baseball bats.

Well said and exactly on target.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Kajti

Loads of people download stuff. You think we obsess over whether it's right? We told you up front: we don't care. If you care to spend time thinking about it, have fun, but most of us don't find it a worthwhile hobby.

And as was said, it's exactly that attitude that will destroy society.