Yet another thumb of the nose from publishers

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

Still, it isn't the same. And it sure has heck doesn't add to the cost.

What isn't the same? The output file for print vs ebook? No, it's not. But as you say, it doesn't add much to the costs. It can add to cost depending on material. Consider textbooks, that normally have a multi-column layout and things like side-bars and footnotes. The usual way to handle them as ebook files is as a PDF, but that requires a larger screen than most readers have for effective display. (The Amazon Kindle DX in intended to address this use case.) If you want something viewable on a conventional reader, you have to radically redo the design for effective display, and creating two separate designs for print and ebook does add to costs.
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Dennis

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I would be. What about DRM will make the server costs that much greater?

DRM produces a locked file. You unlock the file on your end with a key. from the server's view, it's just a file. Is a password protected Zip archive you download any more costly than an unprotected one for the server?
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Dennis

I meant that the publishers buy a service from DRM providers (including server space). And I thought that cost was pretty high but I might misremember.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by tompe

I meant that the publishers buy a service from DRM providers (including server space). And I thought that cost was pretty high but I might misremember.

No, in that case you have a point. I think it will depend upon the setup.

The publishers will license a DRM scheme (like the one Adobe uses to secure ePub) and there will be a cost. They may also contract for server space and bandwidth instead of building their own in-house capability.

But I don't see the costs added to any individual title by doing so approaching the shipping and handling costs for a printed book.
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Dennis

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by starrigger

And that is the most succinct summary I have yet seen of this seemingly infinite topic of debate.

If a book is in paperback (no matter the format), then I feel that the eBook should be priced at $5.00.

If a book is out in hardcover and priced at least $25, then the eBook should be priced at $9.99.

But, we have to have that price shift happen the same day as the book goes from hardcover to paperback and it should not matter if the paperback is printed by a different company then released the hardcover. We need structure and we need it now.

[JSWolf]

If they are going to charge as much as the print book for the eBook, then they need to drop the DRM and give us more rights with the eBook. Like being able to transfer to a different user account so we can effectively sell it. If we are not going to have any rights with eBooks, then they had better drop the prices significantly. We are not going to stand by and be cheated.

[JSWolf]

But, it costs hardly anything to keep and eBook "in print" long after the paper versions have gone out of print. So really, the eBook copies can continue to sell long after they can no longer be bought new in paper. So really, That is something that needs to be factored into the price.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

And ebooks are a problem for the brick and mortar retailers. Sony, for example, was talking in the early Sony Reader days about partnering with retailers, and having the reader sold in bookstores. (Barnes and Noble is doing that with the nook.) My question was "That's fine, but how do you create a continuing engagement with the customer? Once they've come into the store and bought a reader, what will get them to come back, if they can order and download the book from the reader, with no need to come into the store?"

B&N is attempting to address that with the nook by using the built-in networking to browse in the store and read ebooks, the same way you can pull a physical book off the shelf and start reading.
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Dennis

What would work (IMHO) would be a kiosk where you buy your eBooks. You can either bring in a memory card or having the eBooks on a memory card that the store sells you. That way, you go into the store and can browse the shelves and decide what it is you want and then go to the kiosk to find out if the book is available as an eBook and then buy it. But to do that, DRM should be eliminated.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Well, you have less options.

A friend does DTP for a major publisher, and has expressed an interest in getting into ebook production. I told her "You will have limitations based on the device. If the book specification from the designer, for example, says that body copy is '11pt Monotype Bembo on 12', that won't be what the reader will display - it doesn't have Monotype Bembo as an installed font, and doesn't have that fine a control over line spacing." She understood.

Actually, you do have that sort of control using ePub with ADE. You want Monotype Bembo, you embed it. You want a specific line spacing, you specify it in the CSS. Really, it's a no brainer. You just tell Amazon, since you do not support what we need, you cannot have our book.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

What isn't the same? The output file for print vs ebook? No, it's not. But as you say, it doesn't add much to the costs. It can add to cost depending on material. Consider textbooks, that normally have a multi-column layout and things like side-bars and footnotes. The usual way to handle them as ebook files is as a PDF, but that requires a larger screen than most readers have for effective display. (The Amazon Kindle DX in intended to address this use case.) If you want something viewable on a conventional reader, you have to radically redo the design for effective display, and creating two separate designs for print and ebook does add to costs.
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Dennis

What if you make a PDF sized for the screen? Make one for the 6" screen, the 5" screen, the 7" and the 9.7" screen and you have it. And it should not be too much extra work given that this is PDF.

[murraypaul]

Easy. They don't make money for the publisher.

Which is a failure of the publisher's business model. And does nothing to discount that there clearly is more demand at a lower price.

Yep. But if I'm a publisher, my concern is sales that will actually make me money. Books resold on the secondary market don't generate revenue for me.

Which is why they are trying to cut them off with eBooks.
Can't lend them, can't buy them second-hand, and at least some publishers are refusing to allow their eBooks in libraries.
That leaves a lot of people who want to read the book, but not to pay full price, but now have no way of getting it. Presumably the publishers hope they will suck it up and pay full price.
The choice is embrace or extinguish, either sell at the lower price and try to gain a larger market, or cut off all other avenues of purchase.

[murraypaul]

From Amazon

Unsurprisingly, when prices went up on agency-priced books, sales immediately shifted away from agency publishers and towards the rest of our store. In fact, since agency prices went into effect on some e-books in the US, unit sales of books priced under the agency model have slowed to nearly half the rate of growth of the rest of Kindle book sales. This is a significant difference, as the growth of the total Kindle business has been substantial - up to the end of September, we've sold more than three times as many Kindle books in 2010 as we did up to the end of September in 2009. And in the US, Kindle editions now outsell hardcover editions, even while our hardcover business is growing.

Hey, look.
Low prices == more sales, high prices == less sales.

[MrPLD]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Low prices == more sales, high prices == less sales.

Aaah yes, but the devil is in the details, as it's a non linear relationship between the two and you need to find the point of maximal income.

Much like picking the right load to apply on a solar panel to obtain the most power based on the light.

[taming]

I know this is a minority opinion, but once reading electronically became my first choice--that is, I no longer would choose a paperback or hardcover tree book when an eBook was available--the value of the digi content goes up for me. I understand that the financial cost to the publisher is less, but it then becomes a commodity like many others, one in which the cost to produce the product hasn't got a whole lot to do with the sale price. The missing piece is that the quality of the books is often not there in terms of how they display.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

No, in that case you have a point. I think it will depend upon the setup.

The publishers will license a DRM scheme (like the one Adobe uses to secure ePub) and there will be a cost. They may also contract for server space and bandwidth instead of building their own in-house capability.

Amazon, however, don't have to license anything; they own their DRM system outright, through having bought Mobipocket. Using DRM probably doesn't increase their costs.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Amazon, however, don't have to license anything; they own their DRM system outright, through having bought Mobipocket. Using DRM probably doesn't increase their costs.

They own their DRM system outright, but not through acquisition of MobiPocket. Mobi provides the format they use for ebooks, but they rolled their own DRM, and do not use Mobi's.

Amazon has the resources to develop an in-house DRM solution, and did, though in Amazon's case, the motive seems to have been vendor lock-in - you can buy any ebook you want, as long as you buy it from Amazon...
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Dennis