"Locations" vs. Pages in K3 - AAAAAAAH!

[JeremyR]

Sometimes real books can surprise you though. You probably don't see it much today, but sometimes in the early 80s you'd get 30 or 40 page previews of other novels shoved in the back of the book.

Actually, the same thing happens with some e-books. Like from feedbooks, they add a lot of stuff at the end, so it always ends earlier than you think. Sometimes a lot earlier for short stories

[grizedale]

Originally Posted by Jacina

how do you read books then? because you ALWAYS see how much you have to go there :P

Precisely, with the onset of ebooks it would be an ideal opportunity. You could then read a book that had a false ending for example without knowing that's what it was because you still have half a dead tree left to go...

[DiapDealer]

Sony does it perfectly. It's based on printed page. So if your font is turned up, you may turn the page and still be on the same "page" or maybe you turn it and you're on page 241-242.

So what printed page is Sony's page number based on? Hardcover? Trade Paperback? Mass Market Paperback? US version or UK?

I just don't get people's beef with locations at all. They give you a quick and easy way to determine exactly where you are in a book. What good would it do to give you the corresponding "page number" of a version of the book that you're NOT currently reading?

A page number is a reference point in the book you are reading. A location number is a reference point in the book you are reading. Is the main beef really all about terminology?

[TenaciousBadger]

i have a question regarding locations, ebooks and citing.
i need a book and, on amazon, i have to choose between the hardback ($70), the paperback ($30) and the ebook ($25). obviously i'd go for the ebook but the problem is i need it for academic purposes and most likely i'm going to cite from it.
is anyone familiar with the guidelines when it comes to citing a kindle ebook? do i just use the locations instead of pages?

thanks!

[foghat]

Originally Posted by a_str8

My problem with locations (and I think this may be at the heart of other people's complaints too) is that the units they picked are so arbiitrary. If they based the unit on the average amount of characters on a hardcover or paperback page, locations would be far easier to understand.

While I don't remember the specifics, it is not arbitrary. But it is not based in any way on a physical copy of the book.

Regardless, I too used to to not like the locations and wished for page numbers (maybe I still do...), but all I do is take the location and drop the last digit (basically divide by 10) and that gives me a close enough page number equivalent.

The main reason I liked page numbers was so I had an idea as to how 'big' this book is compared to past books I've read. And of course so you have an idea of how much further you have to go in a given book.

Locations give me this info just fine - and more consistently than a page number would, as locations are not font/page size specific.

[foghat]

Originally Posted by TenaciousBadger

i have a question regarding locations, ebooks and citing.
i need a book and, on amazon, i have to choose between the hardback ($70), the paperback ($30) and the ebook ($25). obviously i'd go for the ebook but the problem is i need it for academic purposes and most likely i'm going to cite from it.
is anyone familiar with the guidelines when it comes to citing a kindle ebook? do i just use the locations instead of pages?

thanks!

Yes, I would say you'd use the location. I would check with (or explain to) your professor so they are not wondering what is going on when you cite location 2346.

And as a side note: this is one reason why locations are preferable to page numbers - the location cited will get your professor to the the 'page' in question no matter what reading device or font size he is using. This of course assumes he is viewing the kindle version of the book or some other version/reader that supports locations.

[sirmaru]

Originally Posted by TenaciousBadger

i have a question regarding locations, ebooks and citing.
i need a book and, on amazon, i have to choose between the hardback ($70), the paperback ($30) and the ebook ($25). obviously i'd go for the ebook but the problem is i need it for academic purposes and most likely i'm going to cite from it.
is anyone familiar with the guidelines when it comes to citing a kindle ebook? do i just use the locations instead of pages?

thanks!

Cite by locations and specify they are Kindle eBook locations. They are far more accurate than pBook locations which can vary from edition to edition.

[wongdong]

Originally Posted by TenaciousBadger

i have a question regarding locations, ebooks and citing.
i need a book and, on amazon, i have to choose between the hardback ($70), the paperback ($30) and the ebook ($25). obviously i'd go for the ebook but the problem is i need it for academic purposes and most likely i'm going to cite from it.
is anyone familiar with the guidelines when it comes to citing a kindle ebook? do i just use the locations instead of pages?

thanks!

I wouldn't use the locations. It would mean everyone following your citation needs to buy the kindle version (as no other reading device supports this arbitrary numbering method). Instead, use the percentage. That can be mapped to the paper version too. Take comma percentage if the book is large (Some books are more than 10 pagebreaks per percent, meaning one page is 0,1 additional percent.

Thats the only citation method I would accept (and I am an assistant professor).

[foghat]

^ really? How are you realistically going to take a hard copy of a book and find the citation at 37,4 percent?

This becomes even more difficult if there is additional material in the ebook vs. the hard copy or vice versa. Granted, if using an academic type book, there is probably less likelihood of having preview chapters and such.

I agree locations aren't very good if you don't have the ebook version - but really, even if the citation was from a hard copy, you likely wouldn't have the hard copy either. And if you did, who is to say you have the same hard copy version as the OP? In which case hard copy page numbers (which I assume you think are acceptable) don't get you there either.

Maybe a combination of chapter number, a percentage, and a location number? Though realistically, without having the kindle version, finding the actual citation is going to be quite cumbersome.

[wongdong]

Originally Posted by foghat

^ really? How are you realistically going to take a hard copy of a book and find the citation at 37,4 percent?

If the book has 415 pages it is page 155 or 156. Faaar better than location 2127-40 / 7093

But again, thats only my personal optinion. Not one of my students cited an ebook so far. But then again, in computer science, you cite papers most of the time...

[cvkemp]

I fully understand what you are saying I have run into the same issue with my Sunday School Class study material. I use my kindle and the others with the book. From the research that I have done into this that would have to been done by the publisher of the books and ebooks. That is not something that is really controlled by amazon. Then what do they do make it match the hard copy version or the paperback version.
Is it possible I believe so I have done some amateur publishing and was able to do simple page numbers. But it is a pain to do so.

[a_str8]

Originally Posted by foghat

While I don't remember the specifics, it is not arbitrary. But it is not based in any way on a physical copy of the book.

Regardless, I too used to to not like the locations and wished for page numbers (maybe I still do...), but all I do is take the location and drop the last digit (basically divide by 10) and that gives me a close enough page number equivalent.

The main reason I liked page numbers was so I had an idea as to how 'big' this book is compared to past books I've read. And of course so you have an idea of how much further you have to go in a given book.

Locations give me this info just fine - and more consistently than a page number would, as locations are not font/page size specific.

From what I understand, 1 location unit is 128 characters. That's 2^8 bits - definitely not an arbitrary figure in terms of computers and programming, but it is an arbitrary figure to pick for a human to measure where they are in a book.

Your tip on dropping the last digit sounds helpful. Locations are much more useful if they are at least loosely comparable to average page length

[foghat]

Originally Posted by wongdong

If the book has 415 pages it is page 155 or 156. Faaar better than location 2127-40 / 7093

But again, thats only my personal optinion. Not one of my students cited an ebook so far. But then again, in computer science, you cite papers most of the time...

Ha, I didn't even think of doing the actual math.... Was thinking about just eyeballing 37,4%. Man, I am out of it.

Would get you close I guess. Still not ideal, but likely as good as it will get.

[thetonyclifton]

Why cant they just use page numbers - yes the number of pages in the book will change depending on font size etc but - I dont think it is impossible.

It could simple say Page 8 of 300 and when you increased the font size it recalculated to Page 16 of 380 etc etc - it is not drastically different from the locations info but in a much more user friendly and understandable format.

[foghat]

^ I agree. And, before I actually started using my Kindle I would say I vehemently agreed.

However, now after reading a couple of books on my kindle, I find locations are just fine and really probably better, since they won't change with font size. Like I said above, just drop the last digit and you get a pretty close page number equivalent.