Amazon's vertical integration/monopoly

[Cinisajoy]

Hi.
Your last post actually made more sense.
But here is my big problem and where the confusion comes in.

1.Yes, this is Mobileread. This is a specific forum on Mobileread. This particular sub-forum is dedicated to making Kindles work better. So why the complaints here? Do you have a kindle that needs fixed?

2. You have not shown me any proof of any of your claims. Therefore I cannot decide whether what you are saying is true or is it propaganda?

3. Yes, most here are very educated. I am probably the village idiot since I only have two lowly degrees and neither are in computer science. I am assuming most in this particular forum know basically everything there is to know about a kindle. I am also assuming most don't have problems with what you say is wrong.

4. Lastly, if you think Kindles have so much wrong with them or if you don't like the company's ideals, why do you have so many kindles?

5. All I ask is if one is going to tell me what is wrong with a product, show me proof and not blogs that stand to make a profit.

6. I do not understand your closed ecosystem. If I grab a Kindle compatible format from wherever, I can put it on my kindle. So I do not see me locked in to having to buy books at Amazon.

Oh and on your where else would you post I don't know. But now I wouldn't recommend you go to a HOG bar and try to convince the HOGs that what they are riding is wrong.

[elborak]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

You have me totally confused.

That seems to be the most common reaction to notimp's posts.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by notimp

@darryl: I wish I had read this sooner...

You are making an argument I never made, and then #WINNING against it. It's an old method.. Sprinkle a few "plethoras" in there for style - and call it case closed?

Well...

Originally Posted by notimp

[...]

Also - when I proclaim that Amazon is in no way positioned to be an entity that has cultural development or plurality of public opinion in their DNA - thats fine, because Hollywood hasnt either? Also - of course, Amazon isnt a content creator in the eBook space - they just own the current eBook (no one else can create it, no one else should be able to understand it) format in the space - and their ambitions on other sectors (digital content) should be seen entirely separate from...

Originally Posted by darryl

J@notimp. Amazon is not a monopoly! KFX, like Adobe’s new DRM, is a matter for concern. But the sky is not falling now. And this cultural development guardian type argument seems to me to be little more than a pretixt to protect vested interests at the expense of the consumer. Amazon is probably better and certainly no worse than the large publishers so far as preservation of culture is concerned, unless you limit culture to require a plethora of protected bricks and mortar bookstores. And the issue of “plurality of public opinion”, as you put it, has been somewhat topical with the recent Authors United sham debate. It is simply ridiculous to argue that legacy publishing, which rejected 99% of works submitted to them, is better for the free expression of ideas and optinions than publishing with Amazon, which allows virtually anyone to publish. Please feel free even now to actually engage.

Seems a fair response to me.
Well, mainly because it is difficult to make out what you are actually saying, but it *seems* to involve Amazon having too much ambition and they shouldn't be allowed to take charge of cultural development.
Or something.

I am not arguing for brick and mortar (I am sorry folks, but 40% of commerce soon will be online only). I am halfheartedly arguing for "the other publishers", but only as a means to be able to get out of the quagmire that has already opened up.

Oh, good.
Because we never said you were arguing for brick and mortar. Speaking of the construction and beating of strawman arguments, it is entirely possible you have some small talent there yourself.

Granted that darryl mentioned brick-and-mortar businesses, but that was in relation to totally different point sometimes made by anti-Amazon fanatics -- and not one which you were accused of supporting.

I would also argue that Amazon will be a worse "cultural entity" in maintaining the "essence" of the book, than if you'd keep the stakes (as in "has to and also can still produce an ebook") distributed and not have people all follow their model of - "hyphenations for the masses only if they buy our premium format" and "how about we look over your shoulder, count the pages you read, and then distribute funds accordingly -- hey its the advertising model - its great.."

Also - regarding the "library" sidedebate... When was the last time you had to watch ads, or got billed there in regards to the "involvement" you showed in the book you borrowed.

Also - in a recent patent filing Amazons lawyers - "in the flavor text" stated, that they would take over the lending and used market also - simply because, for them - there is no additional expense. Again, the infrastructure already is in place. Think about that for a while.. Just keep pondering on the idea for a bit. I am sure, you'll reach the same conclusions I did.

Please understand, that I am not repeating the "Amazon is bad" arguments that are out in circulation for years, I became critical of Amazons highly controversial approach to this market - after .kfx was released - and everybody failed to report on the fact that we will probably never be able to remove its DRM (not unless Amazon releases PC software that decodes it to be able to view it) -- and everyone else was cheering it on for excluding (easy) hyphenation from all Books that don't go through their "special treatment".

Wait, so Amazon is bad for culture after all? Just like darryl understood you in the first place (and argued against)?

It was a genuine "is this the wrong movie, or.." moment. Before it became very apparent, that people were simply reproducing the marketing lines. You know - like any good online community (I hope it stings.. ).

Yes, .kfx is still a problem - as you identified correctly - and it will get worse over time (because distribution as the main file format is ongoing).

Nope, still not a problem.
My life is blissfully KFX-free to date.

How about a little more provocative statement to end this with..

The old guard in this forum is motivated mainly by brand loyalty and the notion that they have invested countless hours in what, after a few years, amounts to "manage custom screensaver for prosumers" - because Amazon took away from them everything else.

They arent allowed to understand the device, the renderers on it, or the file format. When they tried to make sense of it anyway - Amazon slapped them in the face - so hard, that they took it to heart and never dared to do it again.

But that no one said a word - when the default file format was taken away from them, that makes it somewhat tragic. Because thats the most important cornerstone.

Actually, we can do a bit more than just custom screensavers.
There are a number of quality-of-life hacks for people who just want to read their books, including but not limited to KOReader, Collections Manager, the font hack...
Some people use the Kindle as a handy-dandy E-Ink screen using VNC...
Others exploit the capability of a portable, WiFi-enabled linux box with a screen...

The only thing that has been taken away that I can think of is Ixtab's JBPatch-powered UI mods. And his reaction to Amazon's slap was to only support one firmware revision per hardware model.
Then he left because he finally got his Ph.D. and had to get a life.

You might be slightly confused though, because you keep on mentioning us not understanding the renderers and the file format.
The Kindle Developers Corner doesn't give a $%#@^ about either. Read our subforum description: "Linux, hacking and development of software and hardware". We care about freeing the hardware and running custom software and enabling people to mod the renderer if they happen to have the requisite skills -- and that was mostly Ixtab.
There is a totally unrelated "Kindle Formats" subforum, go bother them if you want to know about the file format.

Also, Kovid really should talk more on this issue - because the next push will be to convince people, that it is so much easier for them just to use Amazon to manage their .kfx libraries. And the kicker? It really is, because its .kfx .. (#usingcalibreishard)

Nope. calibre's official stance is that you should download AZW3 as a long-term archival format, using either http://amzn.com/myk or Kindle for PC.
I do not anticipate that stance changing, even once KFX has been reverse-engineered.

edit: Also in light of the recent developments on the Fire TV front - start thinking about when you don't want people to update their Kindle firmwares anymore - because after all Amazon just introduced a "blocked apps" database to their Android build (thats novel! yes! and here is what it does: Lets say you sideload an app they don't like. On each reboot disable any app thats on the list on a system level so the user not only cant use, or update it - but also cant deinstall it on the UI level, rewrite adbd - so the thing the app you dont like (a launcher btw - to be more specific - a launcher without ads, unlike the one Amazon would like you to use in the future..) does (read a logcat) can't be reintroduced - not without distributing it with an old, packaged, version of that library - and finally - inject yourself in between the command line interface and the system - so when the user tries to launch any app blocked by Amazon, the call errors out).

I am mentioning this, because from a small group of consumers, the reaction to this was "you have to update - to stay in the loop, and because of potential security issues - YOU could become part of a botnet". The same argument that was used in here, around the "responsible disclosure" event. So please - don't get too used to slinging it around - it can come back and bite you...

Finally - a Linux consumer device with a "blocked apps" feature - we had to wait for it soo long... It currently blocks two launchers - simply, because Amazon wants you to spend more time looking at their ads.

Dunno, don't care.
But yeah, security is a really good thing.

Personally, I don't need Amazon's personal take on what an Android tablet should be, but I do have a certain limitation on decent E-Ink ereaders.
Given that the ereader was always and is still more open (as a generic computing device) than the tablet, I'm okay with the situation.

Also on a sidenote - never even think about changing the Kindles UI. But thats nothing new to you... You learned that one a while ago! (Still, hope it stings...)

Nope. Again, Ixtab was the main person supplying UI modifications. He was our resident Java genius. And he had to leave regardless.

For the readers that are not keyed in - in the past Amazon changed their file obfuscation each and every time someone in here identified how their renderers (reader software) on the Kindle work and started to realize functions like custom page borders (all directions) or better hyphenation. I never understood why people in here let that slide... Or to be more precise - why it is seen as a thing in the past - and usually not talked about.

Its a culture thing..

I never understood why no one reacted - when they banned this communities (easy) hyphenation solution - and then turned around and started marketing it as a "premium" feature - for the new closed (no, no - its "exclusive") file format, they then imposed on to this community (and everybody else). It baffles me.

Possibly because I don't consider it a feature.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by notimp

If you reread my post - it is carefully worded around the fact, that we now can produce (still not fully understand) - .kfx files as well.

It was a nice - FU (sorry, harsh ) - towards Amazons ambitions to keep a wrap on the "feature exclusive" thing.

But we still dont understand the format fully (its not completely reverse engineered - and since the maintainer currently is still working solely on a trial an error basis, it will be hard to get to that point).

And if I remember correctly, you originally claimed even that wouldn't happen.
Despite that now people are making and using sideloaded KFX books.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by notimp

@eschwartz: I was refering to this instance of what at least for the person experiencing it - looked like selective censorship: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=410

If you'd care to explain what happened there, I'd be all ears. But also - this was one stray sentence addressing some of the community culture in here.

edit: I just realized, that this seems to be a reference to another (Amazon owned) forum ( https://kdp.amazon.com/community/cat...a?categoryID=4 ) censoring the discussion about the .kfx format - if this is the case, please accept my apologies - it was not my intention, to misrepresent mobilereads policies. And thank you for putting this right. As someone who wasnt aware that this Amazon platform existed (if you dind't either, you havent missed much.. ) - I blame it on missing context in this specific case.

If I had known - that Amazon itself has shown signs of actively censoring all discussion about their .kfx file format - I wouldn't have played it as a backhanded byline against interests in here - I would have started the argument with this peculiar fact - front and center.

Glad you confirmed your source -- and that we have nothing to do with it.
FWIW -- I have no idea why Amazon is censoring the discussion on their publishing support forums. It seems counterproductive to their interests, honestly.
@Hitch was rather blown away by the absurdity -- she runs an ebook formatting/etcetera company and sometimes gets to talk to important Amazon people.

- The point here is, that none of the Amazon press releases in the recent past followed the Cluetrain Manifesto rules of addressing the public but were basically marketing making up new storylines. None of you probably has spoken with an actual product engineer for a while - after the LED hype in this industry came "dust and water proof" and contrast numbers that were inflated by "doubling the blackness of black", Amazon literally has tried to remove the ability to produce books from the public sphere - they have introduced a content delivery default that hurts this scene as well as the public at large (and we all agree on that) - yet this "Amazon is looking out for its customer" - principle lingers on... My argument is, that this is brand loyalty and nothing more.

Amidst the confused rambling, you made the claim that "Amazon literally has tried to remove the ability to produce books from the public sphere".
You have tried that one before.
It is still wrong.

Dreadfully wrong.

Amazon has not so much as inserted a paper wall in front of anyone's ability to produce books in the public sphere.

You can publish commercially at Amazon, Kobo, B&N, Apple, Smashwords, Google Play, and many other places. Project Gutenberg continues and flourishes.
The means of production even for Amazon haven't changed. The means of downloading has -- on certain devices using certain download methods.

That isn't a change in production, it is a change in distribution.
And the distribution is backwards-compatible too -- you can still do everything according to the old methods.

I have pointed this out before, you ignored me then and you'll ignore this too, but I will say it anyway.

and by not being more vigilant and frankly more critical about industry moves in the past - this community has missed a trick or two. When people in here were arguing, that minimal boarder sizes (the way Amazon chooses them for you) are "good for the customer" - because they make content more readable - they chose to ignore that line length (characters per line) on 6" eReaders is well below the paperback standard, therefore impacting readability at large. Amazon here is counting on people actively being more impressed by seeing a layout that resembles that of a paperback - than them actually counting the length of a line that can be displayed on their Kindles. Or showing any understanding for the concept of adaptability that has to be in place for bigger font sizes.

Also - again, it was a feature we once had - and when Amazon took it away - people in here tend to celebrate it as a "consumer friendly" move first - and only later think about the actual implications. The same goes for counterarguing against criticism brought forward by your community about new format standards - in a way that goes like this "I don't think Amazons intent was to worsen your reading experience, ..." - when the actual argument brought forward was that they exactly did that - and context about their "intent" is just the roundabout way of moderating the discussion into "we all have to make compromises" territory.

If a new problem is evaluated - maybe, just maybe don't have your first reaction be to shut the discussion about it down as quickly as possible.

I'm not naming names - but, If you wan't to, just read trough the .kfx thread and you will find the instances.

Line height/length/borders/assorted typography is a deeply personal sort of thing, it seems.
Many people care. Many people don't.

"ignore that line length (characters per line) on 6" eReaders is well below the paperback standard, therefore impacting readability at large" -- there are people who literally give thanks to G-d Almighty that ereaders empower them to have shorter lines, bigger fonts, wider spacing than the paperback standard, and after a lifetime of suffering with paper they can finally enjoy reading again.
There are opinions that say lines should only be so long and not longer, or readability suffers.

Quite frankly, there are enough opinions that no two people need ever agree, and many of which are diametrically opposite each other.
Claiming that Amazon has objectively worsened the reading experience smacks of such sheer arrogant notimp-centrism that I am lost for words.

edit: A community where you only "whisper" that Amazon is actively censoring discussion around their main file format on their Kindles - but the actual fact is never seen as something worthy of a discussion - or being worth taking an actual stance against. So which is it? You didn't know, you didn't care - or you dind't want to?

"Amazon would never..." doesnt work as a "catchphrase" anymore, in many aspects.

Never what? Do something stupid which very few people care about because their forums aren't that busy to begin with?
And none of them can figure out why Amazon is censoring the discussion anyway.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by notimp

I am sorry - but there is something deeply wrong with this view. This is mobileread, first and foremost - a community of people invested in the development of digital reading. Also some of the current developments in this field are introduced by a (distribution and online infrastructure) company named Amazon.

Of course I am addressing this in an Amazon centric forum, where else would I talk about stuff like this?

Im addressing Amazon customers, because I am one myself - and am deeply concerned with the direction this company has chosen to take - in the last few months.

The opinions of Cinisajoy are not necessarily those of other people.

I am with you on this -- Cinisajoy, I really don't know where you are coming from???

That being said, I am still really confused with the way the thread seems to regularly go on irrelevant tangents better suited to the General Discussions forum, rather than things of interest to the local hacker community (the Kindle Developers Corner).

...

Actually, maybe that is what Cinisajoy is referring to!

- Amazon has established a new fileformat conceptualized so that they would be the only entity able to create it, then started to distribute it en mass.

Eight months in - this community was partly able to reverse a mechanism so we can create somewhat functional files within this format - but we still have no understanding how it works, we still cant create our own tools to work with it, we still cant convert it, Amazon still will not accept those files, the format cant be distributed legally.. And Amazon has switched its automated distribution to this very format (.kfx) exclusively.

Sure we can distribute it, just not for sale. End-users can use it if they want.
And Amazon has NOT switched exclusively to KFX -- I don't know where you got that delusion from.

- To sweeten the deal, Blogs and customers were sold on new "features" only Amazon could provide - like hyphenation and ligatures - this was done to create the notion of a "premium" format - the public won't be able to create or modify - but it would be able to purchase.

The problem? Hyphenation is not a premium feature - it is a necessity. Especially in languages other than english.

Necessity for you.
I am happy with AZW3, mostly because I have never cared about hyphenation.
Then again, I read in English (proudly monolingual entitled American here ).

Please do not mistake your foreignness for a universal necessity.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

The opinions of Cinisajoy are not necessarily those of other people.

I am with you on this -- Cinisajoy, I really don't know where you are coming from???

That being said, I am still really confused with the way the thread seems to regularly go on irrelevant tangents better suited to the General Discussions forum, rather than things of interest to the local hacker community (the Kindle Developers Corner).

...

Actually, maybe that is what Cinisajoy is referring to!




Then again, I read in English (proudly monolingual entitled American here ).

Please do not mistake your foreignness for a universal necessity.

If I lost anyone I am sorry, but this tablet makes it hard to quote just parts of a post.
So I was answering notimp's latest post.

Oh and HOG stands for Harley Owners Group.
I hope this has un-confused you.
Oh and eschwartz, I speak the exact same language you do.

[notimp]

Or something...

If you need me to break it down even further - removing the ability to produce and understand media, be it just even a specific format from any entity ("stakeholder") other than Amazon, from my point of view is unacceptable from the cultural (as it impacts society) perspective - and it is an outright atrocity to already see this format pushed out as the new default via auto delivery - as part of a process that cant be changed. (If Amazon had at least put in an opt out - I could now campaign for people to use it..)

Just look at what it has created already - we are living in a world were authors and publishers put their books on Amazon - then wait for their algorithm to "fly over" and create a version of it thats considered by certain interests to be "more premium", and is positioned to be accepted by the user as such. (Downconverting your images as it sees fit, reinterpreting the structural layout you have given it - but, why all the fuzz about that - you can still "guess" how it will look like in the end...)

H,E,double hockeysticks - consider for a moment, what the response would have been if Amazon announced this to be their eBook perspective from the outset.

Consider the perspective that soon "selling eBooks" will mean to distribute blobs of data, not even one of us should be able to understand - structurally, function wise, conceptually. Because they all have to be created by Amazon themselves (to be fit for auto delivery).

And there is also a strong connect toward the notion of "oh, Calibre is so cumbersome - and it only supports the old formats, .. - so why not give up managing our books locally - why not just use Amazons cloud".

The statement from darryl implicitly suggests alterior motives in as much that I would favor a competitors solution. This is not the case. (I agree, words are cheap, but for what its worth - I at least have said it..) I see this as a structural issue - because if the Amazon model becomes viable (and since it already is in place..), competitors might take it up as well. I literally have to do it the hard way and try to create a sensibility within the more technically inclined userbase where all of this matters.

I cant just tell you to go out and buy *insert different product*.

Also - there is the argument, that while - yes, this is bad, its not time to take action now - because Amazon still feeds us with this breadcrumb solution of "why not log into your Amazon account on a PC, use an browser and a USB cable - and voila - you still get a format you are allowed to understand". The point here is, that this is not what the majority of customers will buy. Conceptually - I bet that the same 95% that never change a facebook default, soon never will hold an eBook in their hand that the public still understands structurally. Oh - they still will be able to look at it, probably even sell it used one day - but the point being, that this is Amazons infrastructure. Their market subsegment. Their economy. Their product.

And this is not what books are. Fundamentally not.

If you dont want to take action now - maybe not "fine", but "ok". But we have to develop the notion of what is going on right now - while you might choose to do nothing about it. We are talking about the beginnings of a future, where culture really just becomes content first. (Think Spotify without the ability to buy CDs, mp3s, aac files - or anything else that we understand as a format.)

Just a new DRM layer would have been fine with me (This is about as far as I will go making concessions.) - .kfx is something entirely different. Its a beast. (There, rhetorics at work again.. )

Now - back to reading your responses, so far I have only skimmed through them and already got animated enough to write this response..

--
edit: Amazon might be as good or bad as any other company (not taking into account their market share, their leading role within this industry, or anything resembling an informed stance on this issue), but they have simply crossed a line. And they have done it in other segments of their "content distribution" ambitions as well.

Do you still have the image in mind where Apple dictated the rules of the new digital economy to music lables - and in the end they got burned and never would have done the deal again? Well I envision the same outcome with Amazons market defining ambitions in the sectors they entered - but on part of society as a whole. Because no one, no one - can argue towards this, this being the sensible solution.

I was upon the first to call publishing houses crazy for chaining themselves to Adobe (DRM wise), especially outside the US - partly because in the tech community "trusting in Adobe" has become somewhat of a running gag on its own.. But from now on (from this point forward) half of society (consumers, publishers, authors) will trust in Amazon to be the "guardian, sole proprietor and distributor" of books (at least the "premium" flavor of books in the Kindle ecosystem)?

I'm not talking about a customers informed buying decision - but transitioning costs. What it takes to leave this ecosystem - some day in the future. Heck I have maybe a hundred books in my possession (maybe more), where neither the publishing house nor the distributor even exist today. Thats "nimble" for you - as a concept. These books can still be read, exchanged, sold. But from now on - for most Kindle customers it is Amazon all the way - right? And Kindles will last forever..

And also there is a difference between choosing your "store of choice" and what we call a "lock in". Well - the lock in all of a sudden isn't just behavioral anymore. For the suggested 95% it has become practical. (edit: Or at least so unlikely that...) I am sure the product blogs will catch up with this development any minute and start informing their userbase... *sarcasm*

[notimp]

Here is the counterargument to this by the way.

Amazon (as a content hub) is in the personal relationship business. They know you, and thats what they are selling.

To the buyers - the potential to reach highly targetable audiences, far outweighs their want of "ownership", "final edit", or "editorial control (there will be fringe issues, sooner or later -- right now you already have 90%, pulled that number out of thin air, of the direct publishing crowd "writing for the algorithm")", so they gladly sell it all to Amazon in exchange for a place on the market - where the search algo will surface everything to all people ("integrated experience").

and the customers dont care - because Amazons goal is to "connect and entertain" and they are happily entertained by cheap, hyperlocal, erotic novelas - where you can change the main protagonists name to yours.

Marketed .kfxiii feature - you read it here first.

Also - a book? Whats a book?

To my "proof or I won't even contemplate thinking about it" audience - there isn't any. Well maybe the general trend in businessplans in silicon valley... You can skip right over this posting. Next time its back to facts...

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by notimp

Here is the counterargument to this by the way.

Amazon (as a content hub) is in the personal relationship business. They know you, and thats what they are selling.

To the buyers - the potential to reach highly targetable audiences, far outweighs their want of "ownership", "final edit", or "editorial control (there will be fringe issues, sooner or later -- right now you already have 90%, pulled that number out of thin air, of the direct publishing crowd "writing for the algorithm")", so they gladly sell it all to Amazon in exchange for a place on the market - where the search algo will surface everything to all people ("integrated experience").

and the customers dont care - because Amazons goal is to "connect and entertain" and they are happily entertained by cheap, hyperlocal, erotic novelas - where you can change the main protagonists name to yours.

Marketed .kfxiii feature - you read it here first.

Also - a book? Whats a book?

To my "proof or I won't even contemplate thinking about it" audience - there isn't any. Well maybe the general trend in businessplans in silicon valley... You can skip right over this posting. Next time its back to facts...

What does any of this have to do with the developers?
I see no coding.
We do have a forum for Amazon Kindles if you would like to take this discussion there.
You might get a better response.

[notimp]

I'm not a developer myself, yet I frequent this forum. I did so even in the past, when I was less active. Partly because I looked after different communities, so reading up on the developments in here - for a long time - was part of my daily (and later weekly) routine.

Also I need an audience that still understands file formats, a niche - if you will - to mount some resistance against making those "exchangable" at one companies whim. ("Look - two new features!")

Also - dont shortsell this forum. Even with all the negative campaigning against bringing up any issues at all - this topic got enough views to warrant my time.

Let facebook groups marvel about an "asymmetric" design, a few more 2 cent LEDs and the same display they got sold three years ago (also ostensibly the same UI, btw), I'm aiming at a different user. I _dont_ want you to catch this, while you are trying to entertain yourself, reading through feeds made out of catchy headlines that prompt upvotes. But instead only if and when you are willing to invest some time in contemplating those developments.

Let Amazon hardsell you designed wants, I'm soft"selling" a version of reality that becomes more apparent by the day. But I need a place to do so.

Btw. why did you even bother to quote me, when your response was that none of it matters to people in this specific subforum? Yours by the way wouldn't be the academic argument, its the worry of the magistrate about his neat little universe getting disturbed. Also the bane of marketing I might add..

But lets not drift into bickering again - I'll stop right here.

[knc1]

Originally Posted by notimp

Partly because I looked after different communities, so reading up on the developments in here - for a long time - was part of my daily (and later weekly) routine.
- - - -

We really don't need to be looked after.
Our parents have already given each of us permission.

[induna]

Ahh!!! An epiphany... I finally understand. Notimp is actually computer generated and this whole thread has been an impromptu Turing Test. It explains the bizarre turns of phrase, and the brief moments of apparent coherency that are quickly subsumed into a morass of unrelated jargonistic nonesense. Perhaps Amazon is using us as Guinea Pigs for testing new Alexa algorithms? Those B$%&ds.

You fooled me once Evil Amazon, but not again! I'm not reading this thread anymore...

[notimp]

Amazon, two weeks ago, started an ad campaign on Facebook - aimed at young mothers, to get children into the Kindle ecosytem.

The campaign trys to hook you emotionally and offers catchy sentiments, that are actually somewhat untrue, if you look at what Amazon is actually doing in contrast.

So I decided to deface them. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adbusters )







The original campaign art can be found on https://www.facebook.com/kindle/

This is social activism, btw. - so if forum moderators would leave a short comment if they'd allow or condone freedom of speech to that extent...

Also this hopefully addresses the notion, that most Kindle customers would still just like Amazon to make most decisions for them.

Have fun.

notimp

[notimp]

Originally Posted by knc1

We really don't need to be looked after.
Our parents have already given each of us permission.

Believe me - I dont wan't to look after another bunch of developers with no specific notion what their work is actually producing in a social context. (If it stings, that the intent.)

You can find out for yourself. If you want to.

I actually was more than hesitant to get myself involved in all this (double check for yourself) - when I started, but since the old guard prevented someone else from stepping up - and It now takes someone who at last knows how to argue for something, and who can deflect character assassinations if they get thrown - it seems I have to.

Also - please don't try to string me up with sentiments I have never made. This community has to grow with the problem - "looking after it" is NOT the solution.

Develop your own conscience, and do it fast.