Using "alternative" sources to obtain books you already own?

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by ficbot

I am not saying it excuses it, Jeannie. I am only saying that for most people it doesn't matter---and business ignores this reality at its own peril.

True that.

[GeoffC]

I wonder sometimes if this topic is introduced just as a conscience trip by the original poster just to justify what they may already be doing, or may want to do .... whether it's called trawling the "darknet" or using "alternative" sources - to quote two recent threads.

Not matter what the legality situation is in your country, it's what your conscience dictates that ought to govern ones actions.

[I, personally, don't]

[jhempel24]

I keep seeing this "hardback vs paperback", and it's just silly to me, of course I don't think you should get a free paperback after buying the hardback....but do I think you should get a free ebook for purchasing yes...it doesn't cost them ANYTHING to produce! And as long as the publishers are going to make the prices of their ebooks just about the same as paperbacks (when they are released in paperback), then I'll go to the net and find my book. I've given the publisher their money buying the hardback/paperback. I'm not going to give it to them again because I want a scanned copy.

The ebooks add NOTHING to the content of the original book. If they did, then that would be a different story.

It's like paying $1.50 for a 20oz soda over $1 for a 2-liter because it's more convenient.

It's like the DVD/Blu-Ray distributors right now giving away free mobile formatted copies with the DVD.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

I wonder sometimes if this topic is introduced just as a conscience trip by the original poster just to justify what they may already be doing, or may want to do .... whether it's called trawling the "darknet" or using "alternative" sources - to quote two recent threads.

Not matter what the legality situation is in your country, it's what your conscience dictates that ought to govern ones actions.

[I, personally, don't]

I've wondered the same thing (mayhap less wonder than belief, however).

Relying on one's conscience is not a reliable (pardon the pun) way of governing one's actions. Just the large number posters at MobileRead who believe that distibuting and receiving copies of illegally obtained e-files is not wrong should attest to that.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

I've wondered the same thing (mayhap less wonder than belief, however).

Relying on one's conscience is not a reliable (pardon the pun) way of governing one's actions. Just the large number posters at MobileRead who believe that distibuting and receiving copies of illegally obtained e-files is not wrong should attest to that.

Okay, but it worries ME what I do.....

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Okay, but it worries ME what I do.....

I'm with you there!

[Xanthe]

With these type of discussions, it usually boils down to the authors among us saying that you have to pay for every single version of a book that you have and that anything else is "stealing", and people with massive amounts of books who have paid thousands and thousands for them over the years feeling that obtaining an e-copy of a book they own via the Darknet is perfectly okay.

There's never going to be any reconciliation between the two points of view because one side is discussing intellectual property while the other is discussing physical property.

I have no problem with people who are still buying books obtaining digital copies of them from the Darknet. The people I do have problems with are those who never buy books (or movies or music) at all and obtain everything via the Darknet. Those folks are just cutting their own throats, IMO, because if we don't support the artists, there eventually isn't going to be anything to download.

If more publishers followed the pricing strategy of say Baen, I'm sure more people would be willing to pay for their digital book copies. I'll easily pay $6.00 for an ebook; I won't pay $19.95.

[Kurt]

i'm new to this whole ebook business and i'm willing to pay for every single DRM free ebook whether i've purchased a dead tree version in the past or not - so no, i don't have a conflict between intellectual or physcial property

so far though 99.9% of the books i've looked for are not legitimately available - DRM free anyway - and after my one experience yesterday with a DRMed book (which i still haven't been able to shift to my reader) it won't happen again

[kjk]

Originally Posted by jhempel24

I keep seeing this "hardback vs paperback", and it's just silly to me, of course I don't think you should get a free paperback after buying the hardback....but do I think you should get a free ebook for purchasing yes...it doesn't cost them ANYTHING to produce! And as long as the publishers are going to make the prices of their ebooks just about the same as paperbacks (when they are released in paperback), then I'll go to the net and find my book. I've given the publisher their money buying the hardback/paperback. I'm not going to give it to them again because I want a scanned copy.

The ebooks add NOTHING to the content of the original book. If they did, then that would be a different story.

It's like paying $1.50 for a 20oz soda over $1 for a 2-liter because it's more convenient.

It's like the DVD/Blu-Ray distributors right now giving away free mobile formatted copies with the DVD.

So by that logic, if you bought the hardcover, you should only pay the material cost for the paperback? So basically the content should be separate from the container. Would you object then, if the content was priced 3x higher initially?

[Rich_D]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

I can't destroy what is already broken. If you can't see the humor in Rich's feeble attempts to rationalize an illegal (where he lives) behavior, then I suppose it is meaningless to you. In the US (and, I'm pretty sure, anywhere else), it is illegal to make a copy of a book (be it paper or digital; the media is immaterial) for the purpose of distribution (it is a copyright violation). Trying to say it was alright for him to give away the original because he originally hadn't intended to when he first obtained the copy is lame; the purpose of the copy changed when he gave away the originals no matter his original intent. Then when called on it, he tried using various excuses, such as, "I can't throw away something that still has use. I can give it away or sell it if I don't need it anymore, but I can't destroy it." That changes the law how? At one time he said, "Do I care? Not one bit" yet he continues to rationalize. Frankly, it has been hillarious. I've tried to reserve making judgement and just tried to counter each argument, mostly by asking the person making the argument to explain themselves, but that has obviously not worked. Rich and his ilk are just selfish people who want to do what they want for their own childish, selfish reasons, the heck with anyone else's rights or what the laws are (no matter how wrong they may or may not be), and they need to grow up.

There's a bit of a difference between answering questions and rationalizing behavior. In fact I was fine not answering anything at all until you asked my why I didn't think it was wrong.

As a matter of fact, I'm currently making .avi files of all the dvd's I own. Once the copies are complete and the files are backed up, I'll be giving the dvd's away.

Rationalizing assumes that I'm looking for approval from members of this board. I'm not. There are exactly 2 people in this world who's opinion matter to me and neither is a member of this board.

[Rich_D]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If you had once bought an LP. Would you expect to get the CD for free?

If you buy the hardcover, do you expect to get a free paperback?

So why do you expect to get a free eBook when you own a pBook version?

When I buy a CD, I do get an MP3 for free; and to add fuel to the fanatical fire, yes, I recently gave away my CDs.

I have the hardware and software to make my own ebooks, downloading existing copies was faster, easier and didn't require me to destroy the original.

[Rich_D]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You might have been OK with having the eBook version when you owned the pBook. Like format shifting. And I say MIGHT. But it was when you got rid of the pBooks and kept the eBooks that there was no doubt that what you did was wrong.

I agree, once I gave the books away, I violated U.S. Copyright law.

Also driving home from camp today, on several different occasions, I exceeded the posted speed limit. I'd say why, but Lady Fitzgerald would accuse me of rationalizing my behavior.

[ManosHandsOfFate]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

I wonder sometimes if this topic is introduced just as a conscience trip by the original poster just to justify what they may already be doing, or may want to do .... whether it's called trawling the "darknet" or using "alternative" sources - to quote two recent threads.

Not matter what the legality situation is in your country, it's what your conscience dictates that ought to govern ones actions.

[I, personally, don't]

I'm the OP. For many years I've been an unrepentant user of BBSs, warez sites, eDonkey, and now bittorrent for all kinds of digital content.

I sleep well at night.

I do buy things too - I have a large collection of books, CDs and PC/video games. The older I get and the more disposable income I have, I find it's just easier to pay for stuff (not to mention safer for the 'ole PC).

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Well, you two definitely deserve points for having the backbone to admit you are lawbreakers and don't care. However, if you don't want to get challenged for something you do, don't advertise it.

[Rich_D]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

Well, you two definitely deserve points for having the backbone to admit you are lawbreakers and don't care. However, if you don't want to get challenged for something you do, don't advertise it.

I don't mind at all being challenged on it and enjoy the open debate.