An editing problem I keep noticing

ficbot · 08-26-2010, 11:59 PM

Now that I am at the half-dozen point with Smashwords reviews (not counting the books I sampled and then gave up on) I am noticing one editing issue that keeps coming up over and over again. I have seen it both ion self-published books (where I suppose such issues have to be expected) and in ones coming out of some of the e-houses. I am posting about it as a public service to anyone editing their own book right now!

The issue is forcing the reader to sit through the same scene over and over again. Sometimes this occurs because the character has to tell another character some news that the reader already knows. For example, one of the books had a detective who was conducting his investigation several days before the world was going to end. So people kept responding to his investigative interviews with the sentiment 'who cares, because the world is going to end in X days' and he would explain (again!) why he cared and how they could help him. Even though this would be new information for the person he was interviewing, the reader had already heard his explanation half a dozen other times!

This is not the only example. Other books I have read have this problem. It can really slow a story down. So if you are editing a book and you come across a scene where they are discussing something the reader already knows, it should be a prime candidate for axing, imho

GeoffC · 08-27-2010, 04:50 AM

A bit like documentaries on TV when, after each advertising break, the announcer repeatedly reminds us where we are, why, how and everything they obviously don't think we can remember for more than 20 seconds !!!!

MacEachaidh · 08-27-2010, 06:09 AM

A point worth making, ficbot.

I sub-edit two technical magazines, and it occurs all too frequently in that kind of writing as well. I think authors believe they're reinforcing a point they wanted to make clearly, and don't realise it starts to sound like mere badgering.

Steven Lake · 08-27-2010, 06:21 AM

I actually hate that myself, so if I can at all avoid having to repeat something, I do. Sometimes I'll note this repeat simply by saying something like "And so and so explained what had happened in this and this situation." and then leave it at that.

jaxx6166 · 08-27-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

I actually hate that myself, so if I can at all avoid having to repeat something, I do. Sometimes I'll note this repeat simply by saying something like "And so and so explained what had happened in this and this situation." and then leave it at that.

And that's the way it should be! No sense clubbing the reader over the head with the same thing over and over and over again. If it's important and needs to be reinforced, then it should be done ONCE when it's really really important. Like sequels.

guyanonymous · 08-28-2010, 10:34 AM

I've noticed several mainstream authors who do this as well, often repeating entire paragraphs almost word for word when describing characters/relationships/etc.

Steven Lake · 08-28-2010, 10:48 PM

Well, the only situation where I can see this actually being practical or usable is in a time jumping scenario where you're experiencing a "Groundhog Day" type event and many actions within the book are repeated verbatim.

Vintage Season · 08-29-2010, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Well, the only situation where I can see this actually being practical or usable is in a time jumping scenario where you're experiencing a "Groundhog Day" type event and many actions within the book are repeated verbatim.

... or in a mystery scenario, where clues to the solution are drabbled piecemeal throughout the story, any time the leading characters are required to go over what they know. The key would have to hinge on a very subtle bit of knowledge, that the investigators didn't even realize they had, until an astute outsider put it together.

- M.

CaraM · 08-29-2010, 10:28 AM

I think a lot of authors tend to repeat themselves, but a good editor should pick that up. To keep saying the same thing over and over is something called "info dump" which is to let the reader know what's going on. But if you're telling a good story, it should unfold naturally and you don't need to hit the reader over the head.

www.caramarsi.com
Logan's Redemption
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0040JI3PG

Vintage Season · 08-29-2010, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaraM

To keep saying the same thing over and over is something called "info dump" which is to let the reader know what's going on. But if you're telling a good story, it should unfold naturally and you don't need to hit the reader over the head.

Sorry, but you have presented an incorrect definition. Although some form of "infodump" is usually necessary to help the reader understand the full gravity of the situation, the process of saying the same thing over and over is simply called "repetition."

From the Turkey City Lexicon:

Infodump
Large chunk of indigestible expository matter intended to explain the background situation. Info-dumps can be covert, as in fake newspaper or “Encyclopedia Galactica” articles, or overt, in which all action stops as the author assumes center stage and lectures. Info-dumps are also known as “expository lumps.” The use of brief, deft, inoffensive info-dumps is known as “kuttnering,” after Henry Kuttner. When information is worked unobtrusively into the story’s basic structure, this is known as “heinleining.”

- M.

horse_girl · 08-30-2010, 12:22 PM

I catch myself inserting the same info in several places while writing, because I need to remind myself, but in editing, I'll leave it in once (maybe twice) where it sounds best and take the rest out. It's a balancing act, but it does slow the story down and feels like being hit over the head with the point by the author when reading the same info too often.

Steven Lake · 08-31-2010, 08:11 AM

Now what would be fun would be to use that repeating as a way to keep the reader focused on the wrong thing so that when the answer appears, you drop a bomb on them because they're expecting something else.

Vintage Season · 08-31-2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Now what would be fun would be to use that repeating as a way to keep the reader focused on the wrong thing so that when the answer appears, you drop a bomb on them because they're expecting something else.

Go for it. (Just be sure you vary the discourse enough to avoid hammer-in-the-skull syndrome).

- M.

horse_girl · 08-31-2010, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Now what would be fun would be to use that repeating as a way to keep the reader focused on the wrong thing so that when the answer appears, you drop a bomb on them because they're expecting something else.

Kind of like what JK Rowling did with Snape and Harry's father while hinting there was something else going on so that readers (at least this reader) actually sympathized when Snape reveals the truth (not giving out spoilers here).

Greenkeeper · 09-02-2010, 12:52 PM

For the indies who can't afford an editor and for whatever reason can't find beta readers, I recommend using a text to speech program to have your work read back to you. A lot of computers come standard with accessability tools for those with vision problems, so you may already have this software and not even know it. Hearing your whole book out loud really lets you catch overused words and repeated sentences that your mind would just skip over when reading.

08-26-2010, 11:59 PM	#1
ficbot Wizard Posts: 2,409 Karma: 4132096 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite/iOS Kindle App	An editing problem I keep noticing Now that I am at the half-dozen point with Smashwords reviews (not counting the books I sampled and then gave up on) I am noticing one editing issue that keeps coming up over and over again. I have seen it both ion self-published books (where I suppose such issues have to be expected) and in ones coming out of some of the e-houses. I am posting about it as a public service to anyone editing their own book right now! The issue is forcing the reader to sit through the same scene over and over again. Sometimes this occurs because the character has to tell another character some news that the reader already knows. For example, one of the books had a detective who was conducting his investigation several days before the world was going to end. So people kept responding to his investigative interviews with the sentiment 'who cares, because the world is going to end in X days' and he would explain (again!) why he cared and how they could help him. Even though this would be new information for the person he was interviewing, the reader had already heard his explanation half a dozen other times! This is not the only example. Other books I have read have this problem. It can really slow a story down. So if you are editing a book and you come across a scene where they are discussing something the reader already knows, it should be a prime candidate for axing, imho

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08-27-2010, 04:50 AM	#2
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,599 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	A bit like documentaries on TV when, after each advertising break, the announcer repeatedly reminds us where we are, why, how and everything they obviously don't think we can remember for more than 20 seconds !!!!

08-27-2010, 06:09 AM	#3
MacEachaidh Browser Posts: 745 Karma: 578294 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura HD	A point worth making, ficbot. I sub-edit two technical magazines, and it occurs all too frequently in that kind of writing as well. I think authors believe they're reinforcing a point they wanted to make clearly, and don't realise it starts to sound like mere badgering.

08-27-2010, 06:21 AM	#4
Steven Lake Sci-Fi Author Posts: 1,158 Karma: 14743509 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Device: PC (Calibre)	I actually hate that myself, so if I can at all avoid having to repeat something, I do. Sometimes I'll note this repeat simply by saying something like "And so and so explained what had happened in this and this situation." and then leave it at that.

08-28-2010, 10:34 AM	#6
guyanonymous Guru Posts: 692 Karma: 27532 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Ebookwise 1150 / 1200	I've noticed several mainstream authors who do this as well, often repeating entire paragraphs almost word for word when describing characters/relationships/etc.

08-28-2010, 10:48 PM	#7
Steven Lake Sci-Fi Author Posts: 1,158 Karma: 14743509 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Device: PC (Calibre)	Well, the only situation where I can see this actually being practical or usable is in a time jumping scenario where you're experiencing a "Groundhog Day" type event and many actions within the book are repeated verbatim.

08-29-2010, 10:28 AM	#9
CaraM Guru Posts: 924 Karma: 1000000 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: Kindle	I think a lot of authors tend to repeat themselves, but a good editor should pick that up. To keep saying the same thing over and over is something called "info dump" which is to let the reader know what's going on. But if you're telling a good story, it should unfold naturally and you don't need to hit the reader over the head. www.caramarsi.com Logan's Redemption http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0040JI3PG

08-30-2010, 12:22 PM	#11
horse_girl Enthusiast Posts: 33 Karma: 100001 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Nook, Motorola Droid	I catch myself inserting the same info in several places while writing, because I need to remind myself, but in editing, I'll leave it in once (maybe twice) where it sounds best and take the rest out. It's a balancing act, but it does slow the story down and feels like being hit over the head with the point by the author when reading the same info too often.

08-31-2010, 08:11 AM	#12
Steven Lake Sci-Fi Author Posts: 1,158 Karma: 14743509 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Michigan Device: PC (Calibre)	Now what would be fun would be to use that repeating as a way to keep the reader focused on the wrong thing so that when the answer appears, you drop a bomb on them because they're expecting something else.

09-02-2010, 12:52 PM	#15
Greenkeeper Connoisseur Posts: 67 Karma: 520312 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Texas Device: Kindle	For the indies who can't afford an editor and for whatever reason can't find beta readers, I recommend using a text to speech program to have your work read back to you. A lot of computers come standard with accessability tools for those with vision problems, so you may already have this software and not even know it. Hearing your whole book out loud really lets you catch overused words and repeated sentences that your mind would just skip over when reading.

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