Keep reading after returning book early?

[Shohreh]

Hello,

After borrowing e-books from the library, I use Calibre + DeDRM to remove the time limit so I don't have to worry about that, but I was wondering what happens to readers who simply borrow a book and keep the DRM: If returning a book early, can they still read it until the time's up as long as they don't connect it to the Net (so there's no way for the e-reader to know)?

Thank you.

[DNSB]

If you don't connect to the Internet, you can keep reading until the expiry date.

OTOH, I personally do not remove DRM from loans (Kobo Plus, Kindle Unlimited. library, etc.) since they are not books that I have purchased.

A minor quirk since I happily remove DRM from purchased books dating back to DRM servers being shutdown on at least two occasions that left me scrambling to remove DRM from my ebooks as I did not want to be left with unreadable garbage.

[Shohreh]

Thanks for the confirmation

[jackm8]

Removing DRM from library book is a bit like photocopying a library book, isn't it? You're not stealing it, but it's also not perfectly legal either.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jackm8

Removing DRM from library book is a bit like photocopying a library book, isn't it? You're not stealing it, but it's also not perfectly legal either.

You'd have to delete all copies after you've read the library book or it is 100% stealing.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by jackm8

Removing DRM from library book is a bit like photocopying a library book, isn't it? You're not stealing it, but it's also not perfectly legal either.

Unless you delete any and all copies after the expiry date of the loan, it is theft.

The only time I have any sympathy for those who remove DRM from library books is for those who read on a device that is not capable of reading the formats supplied by the library (i.e. a person using a Kindle eInk device anywhere in the world other than the USA).

[haertig]

Originally Posted by DNSB

If you don't connect to the Internet, you can keep reading until the expiry date.

It used to be "and BEYOND the expiration date" if you stay in airplane mode. Could be that newer firmware updates have removed this "beyond" part, ... my Kindle is still using quite old firmware, many years old. I haven't tried to do this expiration trick for many years now, so it could be that I'm just remembering incorrectly. But I used to have no problem reading library books over several weeks/months (yeah, I'm a slow reader).

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by haertig

It used to be "and BEYOND the expiration date" if you stay in airplane mode. Could be that newer firmware updates have removed this "beyond" part, ... my Kindle is still using quite old firmware, many years old. I haven't tried to do this expiration trick for many years now, so it could be that I'm just remembering incorrectly. But I used to have no problem reading library books over several weeks/months (yeah, I'm a slow reader).

Not sure how library loans would behave on a Kindle since local libraries do not support Amazon formats. On my Kobos, the clock keeps ticking even if the device is offline and the ePub expires when the loan period is over.

[Rbneader]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Unless you delete any and all copies after the expiry date of the loan, it is theft.

The only time I have any sympathy for those who remove DRM from library books is for those who read on a device that is not capable of reading the formats supplied by the library (i.e. a person using a Kindle eInk device anywhere in the world other than the USA).

No, it's not. You haven't taken anything away from anyone. Calling it 'stealing' is hyperbole pushed by lobbyists and lawyers trying to maximum legal damages for their clients.

Is taking a picture of a painting in a museum stealing? Of course not. The painting is still there. Everyone involved was paid via taxes and museum fees. No one has lost anything.

It may be copyright violation, if the book is copyrighted in your relevant jurisdictions.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Rbneader

No, it's not. You haven't taken anything away from anyone. Calling it 'stealing' is hyperbole pushed by lobbyists and lawyers trying to maximum legal damages for their clients.

Is taking a picture of a painting in a museum stealing? Of course not. The painting is still there. Everyone involved was paid via taxes and museum fees. No one has lost anything.

Don't analogize physical and digital goods and think you've proved anything.

[hobnail]

Originally Posted by Rbneader

...
It may be copyright violation, if the book is copyrighted in your relevant jurisdictions.

Back before we could buy MP3s I ripped all of my CDs so I could listen to them on my computer. I don't know if that's a copyright violation. I would never "share" them with anyone (remembering the Napster days).

[DiapDealer]

I love the smell of semantics by armchair legal experts in the morning.

[jackm8]

Back in the days, you had authors complaining of libraries even existing. I warrant that some oppose the idea even today. Digital books throw another argument into the fray. You can lend, sell and borrow all bought paper books, but just lending a single digital book in a household poses many issues that are often only solved by removing drm.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by jackm8

You can lend, sell and borrow all bought paper books, but just lending a single digital book in a household poses many issues that are often only solved by removing drm.

Again, you can’t analogize physical media and digital media in any meaningful fashion. Purchasing an actual book is not the same thing as purchasing a license. But if you must play this game, you can solve the “many issues” by passing along the ereader itself. See? A single digital book and a single digital copy on a single digital-accessing device. Doesn’t your conscience feel better now?

[Rbneader]

Originally Posted by issybird

Don't analogize physical and digital goods and think you've proved anything.

I think you misquoted? The people incorrectly analogizing physical and digital goods are the ones confusing copyright violation with theft. I compared ebooks to digital pictures.