Kobo Aura H20 bottom space not removed via css.

[masterz87]

I already have the following css in the book.
I just added widows:0 and orphans:0 to the body property that was already part of the epub I had purchased but it's doing _nothing_ to reduce the bottom bar spacing thing. Top bar is removed, but I was trying to reduce the amount of wasted lines at the bottom as right now it looks like it's got ~3-5 lines between the bottom of the book and the "status" bar thing. I like having page number at the bottom but would like to reduce the wasted lines some.

body {
	-epub-hyphens:auto;
	-webkit-hyphens:auto;
	widows:0;
	orphans:0;
}

for some reason kobo also hates line-height aka space between the lines. I have tried modifying the line-height from the standard x.yza it doesn't do % nor em but it's perfectly valid css it's not letting me increase the spacing for some unknown reason.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by masterz87

I already have the following css in the book.
I just added widows:0 and orphans:0 to the body property that was already part of the epub I had purchased but it's doing _nothing_ to reduce the bottom bar spacing thing. Top bar is removed, but I was trying to reduce the amount of wasted lines at the bottom as right now it looks like it's got ~3-5 lines between the bottom of the book and the "status" bar thing. I like having page number at the bottom but would like to reduce the wasted lines some.

Have you checked it there are any other margins? Such as on an @page.

And the gap is between the top of the bottom bar and the text. So tap the screen to bring up the bottom bar to show the line. The text can go down to just above the line.

body {
	-epub-hyphens:auto;
	-webkit-hyphens:auto;
	widows:0;
	orphans:0;
}

The widows and orphans doesn't affect the amount of space used unless a paragraph goes over the end of the screen. And, you should set them to "1". That is the minimum in the specs and

for some reason kobo also hates line-height aka space between the lines. I have tried modifying the line-height from the standard x.yza it doesn't do % nor em but it's perfectly valid css it's not letting me increase the spacing for some unknown reason.

The firmware definitely respects the line-height. And it can be in % or em. I clean-up a book the other day that used % for everything including line-height at something like 10%. That gave some very interesting effects. But, I usually remove line-height for normal text and only leave if for headings and other places where the spacing might be important.

Have you checked there are no errors in the CSS? If you are using the epub renderer, and there are errors, the complete stylesheet will be ignored.

[JSWolf]

There are patches you can apply that will lessen the amount of usable space between the text and the footer. which patches you need dependson which version firmware you ate running.

[masterz87]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Have you checked it there are any other margins? Such as on an @page.

And the gap is between the top of the bottom bar and the text. So tap the screen to bring up the bottom bar to show the line. The text can go down to just above the line.

The widows and orphans doesn't affect the amount of space used unless a paragraph goes over the end of the screen. And, you should set them to "1". That is the minimum in the specs and


The firmware definitely respects the line-height. And it can be in % or em. I clean-up a book the other day that used % for everything including line-height at something like 10%. That gave some very interesting effects. But, I usually remove line-height for normal text and only leave if for headings and other places where the spacing might be important.

Have you checked there are no errors in the CSS? If you are using the epub renderer, and there are errors, the complete stylesheet will be ignored.

It renders fine it seems to me, it has the page size etc bold, italicized difference sizes ec so it seems to be doing just fine, and about the "1" I looekd up the cs and the standard says 2 is the default value. I couldn't find an epub standards page that said differently.

the only @page I have is this one and since it _can_ reduce margins by me changing the settings.

@page {
margin : 20px 30px 20px 30px;
}

the line-height isn't work for me even though you say it should. It's a standard epub and I could've sworn my old nst the line spacing was able to be changed without any major issues.

I am going to dig it out and put the book on there as is, and see if it has a similar issue with line-height aka line spacing. I like to have it set at ~1.5 lines as it makes it easier to read.

For the other issue atm I have enabled full screen mode until I can find a real fix.

OK so line-spacing isn't working on my nst either. I'll post the whole css I guess as it sems to be valid to me.

body, div, dl, dt, dd, ul, ol, li, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, p, pre, code, blockquote {
	margin:0;
	padding:0;
	border-width:0;
}
td, th {
	border-style:solid;
	border-width:1px;
}
table {
	border-collapse:collapse;
}
li {
	display:block;
}
body {
	-epub-hyphens:auto;
	-webkit-hyphens:auto;
}
@page {
	margin : 20px 30px 20px 30px;
}

h1.header {
	-epub-ruby-position:over;
	color:#212120;
	font-size:1.25em;
	font-style:normal;
	font-variant:normal;
	font-weight:bold;
	line-height:1.267;
	margin-bottom:0px;
	margin-left:0px;
	margin-right:0px;
	text-align:left;
	text-decoration:none;
	text-indent:0px;
}

h2 {
	font-size: 1.1em;
	color: gray;
}

h2.subhead {
	-epub-ruby-position:over;
	color:#858586;
	font-size:1.167em;
	font-style:normal;
	font-variant:normal;
	font-weight:bold;
	line-height:0.929;
	margin-bottom:0px;
	margin-left:0px;
	margin-right:0px;
	text-align:left;
	text-decoration:none;
	text-indent:0px;
}

p.base {
	-epub-hyphens:none;
	-epub-ruby-position:over;
	-webkit-hyphens:none;
	color:#212120;
	font-size:0.917em;
	font-style:normal;
	font-variant:normal;
	font-weight:normal;
	line-height:1.182;
	margin-bottom:0px;
	margin-left:0px;
	margin-right:0px;
	text-align:left;
	text-decoration:none;
	text-indent:21px;
}
p.align-r {
	-epub-hyphens:none;
	-epub-ruby-position:over;
	-webkit-hyphens:none;
	color:#212120;
	font-size:0.917em;
	font-style:italic;
	font-variant:normal;
	font-weight:normal;
	line-height:1.182;
	margin-bottom:0px;
	margin-left:0px;
	margin-right:0px;
	text-align:right;
	text-decoration:none;
	text-indent:21px;
}
p.first {
	-epub-hyphens:none;
	-epub-ruby-position:over;
	-webkit-hyphens:none;
	color:#212120;
	font-size:0.917em;
	font-style:normal;
	font-variant:normal;
	font-weight:normal;
	line-height:1.182;
	margin-bottom:0px;
	margin-left:0px;
	margin-right:0px;
	text-align:left;
	text-decoration:none;
	text-indent:0px;
}
p.whitespace {
	-epub-hyphens:none;
	-epub-ruby-position:over;
	-webkit-hyphens:none;
	color:#ffffff;
	font-size:0.917em;
	font-style:normal;
	font-variant:normal;
	font-weight:normal;
	line-height:1.182;
	margin-bottom:0px;
	margin-left:0px;
	margin-right:0px;
	text-align:left;
	text-decoration:none;
	text-indent:21px;
}
p.copyright {
	-epub-hyphens:none;
	-epub-ruby-position:over;
	-webkit-hyphens:none;
	color:#212120;
	font-size:0.5em;
	font-style:normal;
	font-variant:normal;
	font-weight:normal;
	line-height:1.25;
	margin-bottom:0px;
	margin-left:0px;
	margin-right:0px;
	text-align:left;
	text-decoration:none;
	text-indent:0px;
}

body{
  orphans:1;
  widows:1;
}

NST shows the same issues. I am going to have to check again but does the aura h20 have the "fast page turn" mode? I know the NST had it and for some reason when I redo text the thing will flash the cover image and then it'll show the text whereas the NST will just go white then draw teh new text. Also it's bottom bar is way better than kobo's its bottom bar only has ~1-2 lines of text between it and the text.

[JSWolf]

Take out the @page. It's in the way. Then try the eBook again on the H2O.

By having no margins, it gives the person reading the ability to set the left/right margins as wanted with the slider.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by masterz87

It renders fine it seems to me, it has the page size etc bold, italicized difference sizes ec so it seems to be doing just fine, and about the "1" I looekd up the cs and the standard says 2 is the default value. I couldn't find an epub standards page that said differently.

I didn't say "default", I said "minimum". The spec says the minimum value is 1. There is no definition for what happens if you use 0. It is possible the reader will ignore this and use the default, or error from it. The epub reader on the Kobo device seems to treat this the same as 1.

the only @page I have is this one and since it _can_ reduce margins by me changing the settings.

@page {
margin : 20px 30px 20px 30px;
}

And that says what the minimum margins on each page that use that @page. I can never remember the order of the margins, but this means there is either 20px or 30px left unused at the bottom of each page of text. That's probably a lines worth. Also, the reading settings work with this and can increase them but it only affect the left and right margins.

the line-height isn't work for me even though you say it should. It's a standard epub and I could've sworn my old nst the line spacing was able to be changed without any major issues.

I am going to dig it out and put the book on there as is, and see if it has a similar issue with line-height aka line spacing. I like to have it set at ~1.5 lines as it makes it easier to read.

I might have to take this back.

My memory was that the line height in the settings worked if there was either no line height in the book, or a relative unit was used. So, if the line height was in em or percent, it would change, but if it was px, it wouldn't. I've just done a test, and it doesn't change the line height if they are set at all in the styles for a paragraph. I don't notice this a I usually strip the line height except for headings and use the smallest setting in the settings.

[masterz87]

Originally Posted by davidfor

I didn't say "default", I said "minimum". The spec says the minimum value is 1. There is no definition for what happens if you use 0. It is possible the reader will ignore this and use the default, or error from it. The epub reader on the Kobo device seems to treat this the same as 1.

And that says what the minimum margins on each page that use that @page. I can never remember the order of the margins, but this means there is either 20px or 30px left unused at the bottom of each page of text. That's probably a lines worth. Also, the reading settings work with this and can increase them but it only affect the left and right margins.

I might have to take this back.

My memory was that the line height in the settings worked if there was either no line height in the book, or a relative unit was used. So, if the line height was in em or percent, it would change, but if it was px, it wouldn't. I've just done a test, and it doesn't change the line height if they are set at all in the styles for a paragraph. I don't notice this a I usually strip the line height except for headings and use the smallest setting in the settings.

after removing line-height from the book i am able to chnage line spacing bu tit's still wasting a ton of space at the bottom of the screen even though i've removed the @page css. It's still doing some of it at the botom but not as much anymore. Before it was ~1.5 pinky's width(maybe 1.5cm) now it's ~1 pinky's width. It's still not down enough for me my NST was ~1-2 lines of text. With the @page removal it's ~3 lines of text.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by masterz87

after removing line-height from the book i am able to chnage line spacing bu tit's still wasting a ton of space at the bottom of the screen even though i've removed the @page css. It's still doing some of it at the botom but not as much anymore. Before it was ~1.5 pinky's width(maybe 1.5cm) now it's ~1 pinky's width. It's still not down enough for me my NST was ~1-2 lines of text. With the @page removal it's ~3 lines of text.

There are patches for Kobo firmware. One of those patches is for the footer. Have a look at the patches and you'll be able to make changes so you can get text closer to the footer (depending on your eBook settings).

But before you do that, there is a margin test ePub that you can load and it will show you how close to the footer you can get.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/at...7&d=1432037904

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by masterz87

after removing line-height from the book i am able to chnage line spacing bu tit's still wasting a ton of space at the bottom of the screen even though i've removed the @page css. It's still doing some of it at the botom but not as much anymore. Before it was ~1.5 pinky's width(maybe 1.5cm) now it's ~1 pinky's width. It's still not down enough for me my NST was ~1-2 lines of text. With the @page removal it's ~3 lines of text.

I'm at the point where I think I need to see the epub and a screenshot. With that, I can play around until I get the same results. If this is a free book that I can get, point me to it. Or, if you are a calibre user, you can use the ScrambleBook plugin to modify the book in a way that you can post here. Or contact me via PM to arrange something else.

I will say that I can get my epubs to display such that there is less than a lines worth of empty space between the bottom of the text and the top of the bottom bar. Sometimes it seems to be more, but when I open the bottom bar and the line is drawn, it is obvious there is not enough space for another line.

[masterz87]

Margin test on my NST shows it literally right above the line number It has only a single character below it a ^ symbol and it's only 2 lines of text. The kobo touch the "bottom" bar thing is pointless that it can't be reduced by dedfault. If you open the menu itself it'll cover the book anyway. NST is ~2 lines of text below the margin test itself just ^ symbol, and x of y is below it. That's it.

I had to do standaline as the plugin isn't apparently kept up to date as it won't work with calibre.

[JSWolf]

How much space is the margin test showing there is between the bottom and the footer on your H2O? It's been more than a year since I've run unpatched firmware and that was maybe a week at most when I first got the H2O.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by masterz87

Margin test on my NST shows it literally right above the line number It has only a single character below it a ^ symbol and it's only 2 lines of text. The kobo touch the "bottom" bar thing is pointless that it can't be reduced by dedfault. If you open the menu itself it'll cover the book anyway. NST is ~2 lines of text below the margin test itself just ^ symbol, and x of y is below it. That's it.

I had to do standaline as the plugin isn't apparently kept up to date as it won't work with calibre.

The book is working exactly as coded. And in fact the NST is at fault.

You have not specified widows and orphans in the stylesheet. Therefore the device is using the default. And that means you get the big space at the bottom of the screen as the renderer tries to make sure the right number of lines are kept together.

The NST is wrong as it is not respecting the default and is forcing a value of 1 for both orphans and widows.

The fix is to add "widows:1; orphans:1" to the body tag.

[masterz87]

Originally Posted by davidfor

The book is working exactly as coded. And in fact the NST is at fault.

You have not specified widows and orphans in the stylesheet. Therefore the device is using the default. And that means you get the big space at the bottom of the screen as the renderer tries to make sure the right number of lines are kept together.

The NST is wrong as it is not respecting the default and is forcing a value of 1 for both orphans and widows.

The fix is to add "widows:1; orphans:1" to the body tag.

I'd prefer it to do 1 if not specified. I had previously _removed_ widows and orphans as it was seen as pointless.

And also the NST has an option that states "publisher defaults" and I'm pretty sure that that is the thing does the margins if you don't select it. On my NST I have the margins set to minimum. That's the whole shebang. It has 3 levels of margins I selected minmum and I imagine that that sets it to 1 line of text between the epub and the status bar.

publisher defaults setting seems to e the middle one that proably does 2 lines as it's the "default" setting for reading but i always do minimum margins as I see it as a waste. Plus ereaders are based upon how many page refreshes are done it makes sense to me to decrease them.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

How much space is the margin test showing there is between the bottom and the footer on your H2O? It's been more than a year since I've run unpatched firmware and that was maybe a week at most when I first got the H2O.

And as I had said it's ~3-4 lines of text beteween the bottom of the text and the start of the status bar at the minimum.

NST the default setting has the space between last line of text and status bar as follows Default setting is ~2 lines. It has 3 options for margins(top,bottom,left, and right together). Minimum setting is 1, highest is 3. So it _is_ doing what's proper non-default setting reduced the blank lines as part of the standard since it was overridden by user configuration.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by masterz87

I'd prefer it to do 1 if not specified.

Well, it doesn't. Kobo is using the default in the specs. Whether that is the correct thing can be argued.

I had previously _removed_ widows and orphans as it was seen as pointless.

Why? It was being discussed and hence I assumed it was in the book. Especially as your other posts included it. If I did not believe it was there, then the first thing I would have said was to add them.

And also the NST has an option that states "publisher defaults" and I'm pretty sure that that is the thing does the margins if you don't select it. On my NST I have the margins set to minimum. That's the whole shebang. It has 3 levels of margins I selected minmum and I imagine that that sets it to 1 line of text between the epub and the status bar.

publisher defaults setting seems to e the middle one that proably does 2 lines as it's the "default" setting for reading but i always do minimum margins as I see it as a waste.

Using "Publisher defaults" should mean the device respects more of the CSS in the book. Turning that off usually means the device will override a lot of these.

The Kobo reading settings work with the book a lot more than others. The margins effectively works as adding to whatever is in the book. But, it only does the sides and doesn't affect the top and bottom. The line-height works were it hasn't been set. The font size works as a base and relative font sizes set in the book work from this. If the font size in the book is absolute, then it won't be changes. Choosing a font overrides anything set in the book. For epubs, the justification mainly works on paragraphs and doesn't affect headings.

Plus ereaders are based upon how many page refreshes are done it makes sense to me to decrease them.

Well you can edit the config file and set the page refresh to a much higher number. I'm using 15 or 20 which I think is a bit high, but usually something else happens to cause a full refresh before I hit that number so it works OK.

And as I had said it's ~3-4 lines of text beteween the bottom of the text and the start of the status bar at the minimum.

NST the default setting has the space between last line of text and status bar as follows Default setting is ~2 lines. It has 3 options for margins(top,bottom,left, and right together). Minimum setting is 1, highest is 3. So it _is_ doing what's proper non-default setting reduced the blank lines as part of the standard since it was overridden by user configuration.

All that demonstrates is that the NST and Kobo's work differently. Different people designing the reading systems, interpreting the specs and making different decisions about what should be done. These choices mean that the same book will look different on the different devices. As they will look different on a Sony or any of the other ereaders out there. To achieve what you want on the Kobo devices you will need to:

- Set the widows and orphans to 1 in the appropriate parts of the CSS.
- Remove the @page or change it to set the margins to 0 or whatever you are comfortable with.
- Set the left and right margins on the main paragraph styles to 0 or remove them completely. The book designer should do this, but if you look at the code, it is obvious most have no idea what they are doing and a few think they know better.

Doing the above means you will maximize the text on the page. But still get formatting on the page that is important (scene breaks or formatting to show a letter or something ). With this, I have no wasted space at the bottom of the screen.

[masterz87]

Now that it's showing differences in line-spacing it seems the default one is more than 1.5 even at minimum seems to be ~1.6-1.8 and unless I do "publisher defaults" for the font setting it does that insane line spacing. I thought the minimum should be 1 but it seems to be way more than that.