Why do Kindle page numbers use hardback?

[mewmartigan]

I was just wondering why the Kindle "real pages numbers" use the hardback. I would think the paperbacks would be more applicable as a medium font on the Kindle's screen would equate to almost one page of a paperback.

I was reading Midnight Tides by Steven Erikson. The paperback is 960 pages. The hardcover and the Kindle book are 600. It's just weird seeing the page number not change even after you've changed the page on the Kindle twice.

Personally, for some reason, the length of a paperback also gives me a better idea of how long a book is versus a hardback (not sure why...maybe because I've seen hardbacks in a few sizes and font sizes whereas mass market paperback seems pretty standard).

I'm just thinking out loud because I am about to start "The Bonehunters" by Erikson and the Kindle book is 800 while the paperback is 1200 pages!

Either way, I'm happy holding a small Kindle Voyage instead of a 1200 page paperback

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by mewmartigan

I was just wondering why the Kindle "real pages numbers" use the hardback. I would think the paperbacks would be more applicable as a medium font on the Kindle's screen would equate to almost one page of a paperback.

So brand-new books shouldn't have any "real page numbers" until a paperback version gets released?

[mewmartigan]

Ha! point taken.

that is what i get for mostly reading stuff a few years old!

[Geralt]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

So brand-new books shouldn't have any "real page numbers" until a paperback version gets released?

Brand new books use estimated page count not real page numbers don't they?
The question still stands, and I think It's justified. Just the way amazon has set up things I suppose. It doesn't have to make sense.
Personally I usually set up time left in chapter when reading. Plus 95% of the books on my paperwhite are from Kobo.
On Goodreads I always log in Ebook editions which are often more similar to paperback than kindle editions are. That's my little workaround anyway.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Geralt

Brand new books use estimated page count not real page numbers don't they?

Not to my knowledge. I believe it simply depends on who created the ebook (and how they created it). If they choose to include "real page numbers," then brand-new released ebooks' page numbers would most likely be mapped to the only physical book in existence--usually the hard cover. Estimated page-counts are still around simply because no one has yet cared enough to create the necessary mappings to a physical book.

[eschwartz]

Not really -- there are no estimated page counts. The Kindle will not lie to you with unreal pages -- Amazon simply will not provide an APNX.

calibre can be set to estimate pagenumbers and sideload an APNX.

[Geralt]

Ok so why is this showing estimated page count?
http://www.amazon.com/Age-Witches-Se.../dp/B00MAFMKZ6

It says:
The estimated length is calculated using the number of page turns on a Kindle, using settings to closely represent a physical book.

[ATDrake]

^

Estimated page count exists on Kindle books which don't have a physical print edition. The Dyachenko book you've linked is digital-only, because it's translated from the original Russian and was never published in print in English, and they self-published the KDP version and haven't done a CreateSpace paperback of it yet.

By contrast, here's The Scar, a title by the same authors, which has been picked up in English translation and printed by Tor Books, which thus gives it a physical copy for the basis of the "Real Page Numbers" it says it has.

[Geralt]

So new books without paper version use estimated book count at least on amazon page.
Now I have a paperwhite 2, and the Age of Witches on my kindle has 423 pages. On amazon it has 330 pages. So why does my kindle lie? I am in an offline mode.

If this is too off topic, I apologize, you can ignore this question if I'm steering the topic away from OP too much.

[ATDrake]

I don't know. Maybe it adjusts to your font settings? If you've set your style/size/line-height rather different from what Amazon estimates as their standard paper page equivalent, it seems like you could be easily be getting more/less quantity of actual page turns when you read.

[Geralt]

Originally Posted by ATDrake

I don't know. Maybe it adjusts to your font settings? If you've set your style/size/line-height rather different from what Amazon estimates as their standard paper page equivalent, it seems like you could be easily be getting more/less quantity of actual page turns when you read.

Nope. I tried changing font and size. The page number remains the same. 423.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Geralt

So new books without paper version use estimated book count at least on amazon page.
Now I have a paperwhite 2, and the Age of Witches on my kindle has 423 pages. On amazon it has 330 pages. So why does my kindle lie? I am in an offline mode.

If this is too off topic, I apologize, you can ignore this question if I'm steering the topic away from OP too much.

In my experience, books that don't have an hb/pb copy do not get ANY page numbers, at least, when viewing the book from your actual Kindle.

And if you have transferred the book via calibre's send-to-device, then by default it will create a pseudo-page-numbers APNX based on an arbitrary guess.
(I always turn this off, I prefer no page numbers to fake ones.)

The Kindle does not display page numbers unless it was sent an APNX (calibre or Amazon servers makes no difference).

Originally Posted by ATDrake

I don't know. Maybe it adjusts to your font settings? If you've set your style/size/line-height rather different from what Amazon estimates as their standard paper page equivalent, it seems like you could be easily be getting more/less quantity of actual page turns when you read.

Page numbers are based off file offsets, not the current font size. For pretty much that exact reason, I'd assume.

[DiapDealer]

There's no guarantee that kindlebooks that were created with the intent to mirror a print version were mapped correctly. In most cases, it's not Amazon that's responsible for the apnx file anyway (other than providing/delivering). Kindlegen (locally or the KDP upload version) takes one of the two possible page-mapping schemes available to ebook makers and incorporates that data into one of the headers in the dual-format + source output of the kindle conversion process. On the retail end, an APNX file is then generated from that header info and passed onto the consumer (along with the correct format for their device/app).

The process may not be exactly the same for a big publisher, but the main point still holds: a human (and not very likely an Amazon human) is responsible for supplying the proper mapping to "real" page numbers. Some are probably satisfied with a quick and dirty approximation, and some take care to do it right.

I don't know if there's any quality control Amazon performs to ensure the mapping is accurate, but I doubt it. They probably rely on users pointing out discrepancies that they can then pass on to the publisher.

[haydnfan]

Yes reading those Erikson novels can be frustrating because the trade paperback releases have very small font so that you can turn through several pages on the kindle before the page number changes.

I used to be really gung ho about having page numbers on the kindle, but now I use location #s. Have something that doesn't advance when I do a page turn is irritating. When I read with location #s, it advances by 7-8 locations per page turn, and it takes me roughly a minute to go through two page turns. I've finally realized that makes the most sense to me, and that is what I always use now.

[QuantumIguana]

Maybe it's because the hardcover version comes out before the paperback version, and thus the hardcover page count is available first?