Was a Tool Used to Make This Book?

enuddleyarbl · 10-07-2022, 12:11 PM

Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering if the book I just played around with was done manually or with some kind of automated tool. Here's the start of the single file in the whole book:

Code:

<html><head><meta charset="UTF-8"/> 
   
  <meta http-equiv="Content-Style-Type" content="text/css"/> 
  <meta name="generator" content="Amazon.com"/> 
  <title>Edocument Template</title> 
  <link rel="stylesheet" href="../styles/0001.css" type="text/css"/> 
 </head><body> 
  <div> 
   <p style="margin:0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.83%; text-align:center; widows:0; orphans:0"> <span style=" font-size:1.2rem; font-weight:bold" id="3-a7edb3a0f4894830899c38b0e36751ab">SMALL MEDIUM: WELL DONE</span> </p>

I grabbed that from the AZW3 format. This particular book is the third in Andrew Seiple's "Small Medium" series entitled: "Well Done"." There's only one file in the whole book and the stylesheet looks like this:

Code:

			@page Section1 { size:612pt 792pt; margin:72pt 90pt }
			div.Section1 { page:Section1 }

IOW, all formatting is done by html codes in the text. Which is odd for a book published in 2019.

The "generator" and "Amazon.com" makes me want to think this was some kind of Amazon tool. But again, it seems odd that any kind of modern tool would format a book like this

KevinH · 10-07-2022, 12:22 PM

Maybe a poor conversion of a fixed layout epub or a fixed size pdf

Quoth · 10-07-2022, 02:38 PM

Andrew Seiple seems to be listed as publisher of many of his titles. So maybe MS Word to some Amazon tool. Perhaps the Word doc was all inline formatting instead of paragraph styles. I've seen such years ago on MS Word 2002 HTML exports. Perhaps an HTML export and Amazon tool?
Or direct upload of Word doc with no styles.

enuddleyarbl · 10-07-2022, 05:03 PM

As far as I can tell, all the books I have of his are self-published. The text title page says:

Quote:

By Andrew Seiple
Cover by Amelia Parris
Edited by Beth Lyons

The copyright page is the bare minimum:

Quote:

And I can find nothing regarding any kind of publisher.

I'm also pretty sure this isn't a bad scan. I have the vague impression that there might not even have been a dead-tree version when he first published this back in 2019.

I'd lean towards the importing of a Word document (or something similar), but I swear I've seen meta lines up in the html headers of such books saying they were from Word. I don't see anything similar anywhere in the book.

The problem I'm having with it being manually formatted in Word is that every paragraph starts with variations of something like:

Code:

<p style="margin:0.00% 0.00%; text-indent:2.0em; text-align:justify; widows:0; orphans:0"> <span style=" font-size:1.0rem">

Would even a word processor export those kinds of styling codes on every paragraph?

Thank goodness Calibre was able to make some kinds of reasonable styles in conversion. But, it was still a bit of a pain fixing it up manually.

JSWolf · 10-07-2022, 06:16 PM

What book is this and is it available on Kindle Unlimited?

enuddleyarbl · 10-07-2022, 06:20 PM

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...api_tkin_p2_i2

I don't see anything about it being on Kindle Unlimited, so I assume it's not.

JSWolf · 10-07-2022, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enuddleyarbl

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...api_tkin_p2_i2

I don't see anything about it being on Kindle Unlimited, so I assume it's not.

Can you please post the CSS? I don't see anything in the sample (on Amazon) that would have a need to be fixed layout.

enuddleyarbl · 10-07-2022, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Can you please post the CSS? I don't see anything in the sample (on Amazon) that would have a need to be fixed layout.

The sum total of the css is in the 2nd box of my OP:

Code:

@page Section1 { size:612pt 792pt; margin:72pt 90pt }
			div.Section1 { page:Section1 }"

And, if I run the Calibre Editor's "Remove Unused CSS Rules" and prettify it, that comes out to:

Code:

@page Section1 {
  size: 612pt 792pt;
  margin: 72pt 90pt;
}

I just can't imagine any tool not producing ANY css and using ridiculous amounts of HTML styling in the text. OTOH, I can't imagine someone adding that HTML styling by hand.

Karellen · 10-07-2022, 10:15 PM

I downloaded this book today... https://www.amazon.com/Second-Ship-R.../dp/B007TBSLG8

Similar situation, but the entire book is in one html page, and the entire CSS is in the <head> section. Weird

Turtle91 · 10-08-2022, 07:59 AM

I thought the mobi converter used to make a single file book??? Although I don't remember it putting all the styling in the header...

enuddleyarbl · 10-08-2022, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karellen

I downloaded this book today... https://www.amazon.com/Second-Ship-R.../dp/B007TBSLG8

Similar situation, but the entire book is in one html page, and the entire CSS is in the <head> section. Weird

The <html> line at the top of that screenshot seems to be saying the book was produced with Microsoft Office 2004. I can't find anything definitive, but the inklings I'm getting by searching are leading me to believe that Office didn't support CSS until Office 2007.

Still, the book has 87 chapters and is 1.5mb in size. I can't believe the author kept it as a monolithic block while he wrote it. So, I'd at least expect some number of files (besides one).

Comfy.n · 10-08-2022, 10:00 AM

this thread brought to my mind Mobipocket Creator

JSWolf · 10-08-2022, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle91

I thought the mobi converter used to make a single file book??? Although I don't remember it putting all the styling in the header...

Mobi doesn't use CSS. It puts the styles inline.

BetterRed · 10-08-2022, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enuddleyarbl

The <html> line at the top of that screenshot seems to be saying the book was produced with Microsoft Office 2004. I can't find anything definitive, but the inklings I'm getting by searching are leading me to believe that Office didn't support CSS until Office 2007.

Still, the book has 87 chapters and is 1.5mb in size. I can't believe the author kept it as a monolithic block while he wrote it. So, I'd at least expect some number of files (besides one).

The primary reason epubs consist of multiple files is because of the limitations of e-book readers.

Rather than computer file systems many writers manage their work with outlining, storyboard tools, etc, some of which are native to their word processor, or can be added as MS Word/LO Writer templates.

See: https://superuser.com/questions/1488...-styles-as-css

BR

Quoth · 10-09-2022, 05:12 AM

Any ebook conversion tool ought to make a file break at a chapter heading automatically because some ereaders only do page breaks that way. It's an option on Calibre.
It makes sense to have the Wordprocessor source as a single file and for the ebook conversion to split per chapter. Of course some novels have no chapter breaks or very long chapters. In that case an editor could style some scene breaks to look like chapter headings to the conversion software.

10-07-2022, 12:11 PM	#1
enuddleyarbl Guru Posts: 769 Karma: 1537886 Join Date: Sep 2013 Device: Kobo Forma	Was a Tool Used to Make This Book? Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering if the book I just played around with was done manually or with some kind of automated tool. Here's the start of the single file in the whole book: Code: <html><head><meta charset="UTF-8"/> <meta http-equiv="Content-Style-Type" content="text/css"/> <meta name="generator" content="Amazon.com"/> <title>Edocument Template</title> <link rel="stylesheet" href="../styles/0001.css" type="text/css"/> </head><body> <div> <p style="margin:0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.83%; text-align:center; widows:0; orphans:0"> <span style=" font-size:1.2rem; font-weight:bold" id="3-a7edb3a0f4894830899c38b0e36751ab">SMALL MEDIUM: WELL DONE</span> </p> I grabbed that from the AZW3 format. This particular book is the third in Andrew Seiple's "Small Medium" series entitled: "Well Done"." There's only one file in the whole book and the stylesheet looks like this: Code: @page Section1 { size:612pt 792pt; margin:72pt 90pt } div.Section1 { page:Section1 } IOW, all formatting is done by html codes in the text. Which is odd for a book published in 2019. The "generator" and "Amazon.com" makes me want to think this was some kind of Amazon tool. But again, it seems odd that any kind of modern tool would format a book like this

10-07-2022, 10:15 PM	#9
Karellen Wizard Posts: 1,599 Karma: 9499994 Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Libra 2	I downloaded this book today... https://www.amazon.com/Second-Ship-R.../dp/B007TBSLG8 Similar situation, but the entire book is in one html page, and the entire CSS is in the <head> section. Weird Attached Thumbnails

10-09-2022, 05:12 AM	#15
Quoth Still reading Posts: 13,653 Karma: 103503445 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	Any ebook conversion tool ought to make a file break at a chapter heading automatically because some ereaders only do page breaks that way. It's an option on Calibre. It makes sense to have the Wordprocessor source as a single file and for the ebook conversion to split per chapter. Of course some novels have no chapter breaks or very long chapters. In that case an editor could style some scene breaks to look like chapter headings to the conversion software. Last edited by Quoth; 10-09-2022 at 05:17 AM.

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10-07-2022, 12:22 PM	#2
KevinH Sigil Developer Posts: 8,439 Karma: 5703082 Join Date: Nov 2009 Device: many	Maybe a poor conversion of a fixed layout epub or a fixed size pdf

10-07-2022, 02:38 PM	#3
Quoth Still reading Posts: 13,653 Karma: 103503445 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	Andrew Seiple seems to be listed as publisher of many of his titles. So maybe MS Word to some Amazon tool. Perhaps the Word doc was all inline formatting instead of paragraph styles. I've seen such years ago on MS Word 2002 HTML exports. Perhaps an HTML export and Amazon tool? Or direct upload of Word doc with no styles.

10-07-2022, 06:16 PM	#5
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 78,986 Karma: 144284074 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	What book is this and is it available on Kindle Unlimited?

10-07-2022, 06:20 PM	#6
enuddleyarbl Guru Posts: 769 Karma: 1537886 Join Date: Sep 2013 Device: Kobo Forma	https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...api_tkin_p2_i2 I don't see anything about it being on Kindle Unlimited, so I assume it's not.

10-08-2022, 07:59 AM	#10
Turtle91 A Hairy Wizard Posts: 3,295 Karma: 20171067 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Charleston, SC today Device: iPhone 15/11/X/6/iPad 1,2,Air & Air Pro/Surface Pro/Kindle PW & Fire	I thought the mobi converter used to make a single file book??? Although I don't remember it putting all the styling in the header...

10-08-2022, 10:00 AM	#12
Comfy.n want to learn what I want Posts: 1,587 Karma: 7463599 Join Date: Sep 2020 Device: none	this thread brought to my mind Mobipocket Creator

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