DRM, Kindle and Calibre

ptofimpact · 06-23-2011, 10:35 AM

Hi all, new to this forum, and Kindle ...I am reading these posts with great interest. We have several Kindles in the family, and have been looking for a means to 'backup' our purchased Kindle ebooks, Had an experience where one of the kindles needed be sent back to amazon, and unfortunately had a number of 'gift books' on it, which were Not archived to our account. End result, we lost a good number of ebooks, which led to the search of backup software, Calibre.
Calibre works excellent, but, this issue of DRM's being removed, would a book in this state [ drm gone] be harmful to theKindle, or to Amazon account?
Many thanks.
PS please excuse me if this is posted in 2 seperate threads.

DiapDealer · 06-23-2011, 10:43 AM

Quote:

but, this issue of DRM's being removed, would a book in this state [ drm gone] be harmful to theKindle, or to Amazon account?

It hasn't been so far... for over two years now.

mr ploppy · 06-23-2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

It hasn't been so far... for over two years now.

But DRM status of a book being read is one of the things that the Kindle logs and transmits to Amazon when you go online so they obviously have some interest in it.

DiapDealer · 06-23-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

But DRM status of a book being read is one of the things that the Kindle logs and transmits to Amazon when you go online so they obviously have some interest in it.

Logged... yes. But so far—after numerous attempts to do so—no one has actually caught a Kindle transmitting said logs to Amazon. But that's another conversation.

Besides, I was interpreting the OP's question more literally. And I stand by my answer: I've seen no harm to my Kindle, or issues concerning my Amazon account, and I've been removing the DRM from my Amazon purchases for over two years now.

rogue_red · 06-23-2011, 12:32 PM

Amazon has the ability to remove ebooks you have already paid for from your kindle without your consent (see here) and even 'kill' your kindle (see here). It is for these reasons I have no problem cracking the DRM on my purchased content. I don't do it to rip them off but rather to protect my rights as a consumer. When I buy an ebook I should be able to back it up how and where I want, read it how and where I want.
You cannot afford to be naive when it comes to Amazon because you never know when they are going to introduce yet another limitation to your rights.

This from their current terms and conditions

Quote:

Amendment. We may amend any of the terms of this Agreement in our sole discretion by posting the revised terms on the Kindle Store or the Amazon.com website. Your continued use of the Kindle, Digital Content, Service, or Software after the effective date of any such amendment constitutes your agreement to be bound by such amendment.

They could potentially kill your Kindle reader for having kindle formatted ebooks you haven't purchased on it. Remember Amazon knows everything you do on your Kindle reader...
From Amazon

Quote:

We automatically keep an archival copy of your Kindle books-—re-download for free, anytime. We even back up your last page read and annotations, so when you re-download to the device you can pick up where you left off with all of your notes still in place.

and from their current terms and conditions

Quote:

Information Received. The Software will provide Amazon with data about your Kindle and its interaction with the Service (such as available memory, up-time, log files, and signal strength). The Software will also provide Amazon with information related to the Digital Content on your Kindle and Other Devices and your use of it (such as last page read and content archiving). Annotations, bookmarks, notes, highlights, or similar markings you make using your Kindle or Reading Application and other information you provide may be stored on servers that are located outside the country in which you live. Any information we receive is subject to the Amazon.com privacy notice located at www.amazon.com/privacy.

and if they don't like what you're doing Amazon can...

Quote:

Changes to Service. We may modify, suspend, or discontinue the Service, in whole or in part, at any time.

Termination. Your rights under this Agreement will automatically terminate if you fail to comply with any term of this Agreement. In case of such termination, you must cease all use of the Software, and Amazon may immediately revoke your access to the Service or to Digital Content without refund of any fees. Amazon's failure to insist upon or enforce your strict compliance with this Agreement will not constitute a waiver of any of its rights.

I don't own a Kindle although I do have Kindle for PC and I backup my content by simply copying everything in 'My Kindle Content' folder to my chosen backup location.

I suggest that rather than downloading content directly to your Kindle device that you use Kindle for PC which you can use to sync items to your device if you wish. At least that way you will be able to backup all your content, purchased and 'gifted'.

Personally I wouldn't own a Kindle. I value my privacy and rights too much.

ProfCrash · 06-23-2011, 01:19 PM

(sigh) Tin foil hats on everyone...

Any of the major e-readers can remove e-books that you bought through them (BN, Apple, Sony, Kobo) because they all store copies of your books for you.

Amazon made a mistake a few years back and deleted 1984 which was being sold in the US by someone without the Copyright. They gave everyone who was affected a gift certificate for a free book and people had the choice of having 1984 returned to their device or getting a second free book of their choice.

Amazon cannot remove content that you put on your Kindle that was not purchased through Amazon. Amazon has not locked out anyones Kindle for having non-DRMed books on their device.

Plenty of folks own Kindles and have never bought anything through Amazon. They have sideloaded free books or books bought from other stores. There are even people who have Kindles who have never registered them and their devices work just fine.

I love my Kindles (Yes I have 3) and so do most of my family (I think we are up to 11). My Brother enjoys his Sony 505. My cousin has loved her IPAd. No one has had big brother reach in and take a book from them.

That said, I do have my books stored on my desk top and taken steps to make sure that I can move them to what ever new device comes along that looks of interest to me.

Leep · 06-23-2011, 01:50 PM

Like others, I have chosen to remove the DRM from ebooks I have collected to facilitate cataloging my ebooks as well as to convert them for use on both my Kindle and iTouch.

I recently went through a long investigative process on my K3 wifi because the battery seemed to be failing. Although I had several discussions with Amazon over the large amount of 'personal documents' on my Kindle, (as all books from sources other Amazon are pegged) Amazon freely offered a replacement for my K3. This leads me to believe that at least for the present, they are complacent about un-DRm'd books being loaded on a Kindle, as I obviously even had books on my Kindle purchased from Amazon that were suddenly DRM free.

Obviously, no one knows how long Amazon will be tolerant of this action, but since they are still losing market share to ereaders able to access public library books, I suspect they are realistic about how users are using their Kindles.

cheers

ProfCrash · 06-23-2011, 02:03 PM

Yup

And once again, it is not just Amazon. BN, Sony, Kobo all have book stores and all have people doing the same thing. Many folks are using free books, personal docs, purchased drm free books, and purchased drm books stripped of drms. The only way anyone of the larger e-readers whoown their own bookstore cracks down on drm stripped material is if they all do. If Amazon cracks down, I can not turn on my Whispernet, move my books from my Kindle to my desktop, and strip the DRM. Then I buy a different e-reader.

Amazon knows this. Barnes and Noble knows this. Sony knows this.

I would guess that the reality is most people buy books from the same retailer that they bought their e-reader from. Most folks don't know who Apprentice Alf is or that Calibre exists. We know about it here because we discuss it.

I posted at Kindle Boards for a year before posting here and never saw a discussion that included Apprentice Alf. Discussing stripping DRM in anything but the vaguest terms over there is a no no.

So most folks know little to nothing about stripping DRM. Amazon is not going to create a PR blitz by screwing with what I would guess is less than 10% of their users.

ptofimpact · 06-23-2011, 02:10 PM

Thanks to all the posts on this, I read from this forum each day, and gain more insight.

RainingLemur · 06-23-2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogue_red

Personally I wouldn't own a Kindle. I value my privacy and rights too much.

This statement is just silly, as if the Kindle were ran by the KGB or Gestapo or something.

pidgeon92 · 06-23-2011, 04:20 PM

Honestly, I don't think Amazon would bother putting DRM on ebooks if the publishers weren't insisting on it. None of their MP3s are DRMd, and I suspect sales of those are quite good. I purchase almost 100% of my music from Amazon.

crich70 · 06-23-2011, 05:04 PM

I might be wrong, but I don't think that Amazon cares if someone strips the DRM from their own copies of books as long as they don't re-upload them as a part of a torrent file or something. If someone was to strip the DRM from a book they bought from Amazon and then either give it away free or try to sell it illegally to a third party though I imagine that person would be in deep trouble very soon after.

pidgeon92 · 06-23-2011, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crich70

If someone was to strip the DRM from a book they bought from Amazon and then either give it away free or try to sell it illegally to a third party though I imagine that person would be in deep trouble very soon after.

If they give it away online, perhaps.

If I give a copy of an ebook to my mother-in-law, I don't think anyone will notice.

mr ploppy · 06-23-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crich70

I might be wrong, but I don't think that Amazon cares if someone strips the DRM from their own copies of books as long as they don't re-upload them as a part of a torrent file or something.

Removing DRM is strictly prohibitted by Amazon's terms of use.

mr ploppy · 06-23-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

(sigh) Tin foil hats on everyone...

Any of the major e-readers can remove e-books that you bought through them (BN, Apple, Sony, Kobo) because they all store copies of your books for you.

Have any of those other companies removed books from people's devices?

06-23-2011, 10:35 AM	#1
ptofimpact Member Posts: 14 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: Kindle	DRM, Kindle and Calibre Hi all, new to this forum, and Kindle ...I am reading these posts with great interest. We have several Kindles in the family, and have been looking for a means to 'backup' our purchased Kindle ebooks, Had an experience where one of the kindles needed be sent back to amazon, and unfortunately had a number of 'gift books' on it, which were Not archived to our account. End result, we lost a good number of ebooks, which led to the search of backup software, Calibre. Calibre works excellent, but, this issue of DRM's being removed, would a book in this state [ drm gone] be harmful to theKindle, or to Amazon account? Many thanks. PS please excuse me if this is posted in 2 seperate threads.

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06-23-2011, 01:19 PM	#6
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	(sigh) Tin foil hats on everyone... Any of the major e-readers can remove e-books that you bought through them (BN, Apple, Sony, Kobo) because they all store copies of your books for you. Amazon made a mistake a few years back and deleted 1984 which was being sold in the US by someone without the Copyright. They gave everyone who was affected a gift certificate for a free book and people had the choice of having 1984 returned to their device or getting a second free book of their choice. Amazon cannot remove content that you put on your Kindle that was not purchased through Amazon. Amazon has not locked out anyones Kindle for having non-DRMed books on their device. Plenty of folks own Kindles and have never bought anything through Amazon. They have sideloaded free books or books bought from other stores. There are even people who have Kindles who have never registered them and their devices work just fine. I love my Kindles (Yes I have 3) and so do most of my family (I think we are up to 11). My Brother enjoys his Sony 505. My cousin has loved her IPAd. No one has had big brother reach in and take a book from them. That said, I do have my books stored on my desk top and taken steps to make sure that I can move them to what ever new device comes along that looks of interest to me.

06-23-2011, 01:50 PM	#7
Leep Guru Posts: 739 Karma: 1018859 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Near Seattle Device: kindle1, K3, K3G (thanks MR), iTouch, Kindle Touch	Like others, I have chosen to remove the DRM from ebooks I have collected to facilitate cataloging my ebooks as well as to convert them for use on both my Kindle and iTouch. I recently went through a long investigative process on my K3 wifi because the battery seemed to be failing. Although I had several discussions with Amazon over the large amount of 'personal documents' on my Kindle, (as all books from sources other Amazon are pegged) Amazon freely offered a replacement for my K3. This leads me to believe that at least for the present, they are complacent about un-DRm'd books being loaded on a Kindle, as I obviously even had books on my Kindle purchased from Amazon that were suddenly DRM free. Obviously, no one knows how long Amazon will be tolerant of this action, but since they are still losing market share to ereaders able to access public library books, I suspect they are realistic about how users are using their Kindles. cheers

06-23-2011, 02:03 PM	#8
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Yup And once again, it is not just Amazon. BN, Sony, Kobo all have book stores and all have people doing the same thing. Many folks are using free books, personal docs, purchased drm free books, and purchased drm books stripped of drms. The only way anyone of the larger e-readers whoown their own bookstore cracks down on drm stripped material is if they all do. If Amazon cracks down, I can not turn on my Whispernet, move my books from my Kindle to my desktop, and strip the DRM. Then I buy a different e-reader. Amazon knows this. Barnes and Noble knows this. Sony knows this. I would guess that the reality is most people buy books from the same retailer that they bought their e-reader from. Most folks don't know who Apprentice Alf is or that Calibre exists. We know about it here because we discuss it. I posted at Kindle Boards for a year before posting here and never saw a discussion that included Apprentice Alf. Discussing stripping DRM in anything but the vaguest terms over there is a no no. So most folks know little to nothing about stripping DRM. Amazon is not going to create a PR blitz by screwing with what I would guess is less than 10% of their users.

06-23-2011, 02:10 PM	#9
ptofimpact Member Posts: 14 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: Kindle	Thanks to all the posts on this, I read from this forum each day, and gain more insight.

06-23-2011, 04:20 PM	#11
pidgeon92 Wizard Posts: 3,144 Karma: 8426142 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Device: Kindle PW2, Kindle Voyage, Kindle DXG, Boox M90, Kobo Aura HD	Honestly, I don't think Amazon would bother putting DRM on ebooks if the publishers weren't insisting on it. None of their MP3s are DRMd, and I suspect sales of those are quite good. I purchase almost 100% of my music from Amazon.

06-23-2011, 05:04 PM	#12
crich70 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,310 Karma: 43993832 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Monroe Wisconsin Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)	I might be wrong, but I don't think that Amazon cares if someone strips the DRM from their own copies of books as long as they don't re-upload them as a part of a torrent file or something. If someone was to strip the DRM from a book they bought from Amazon and then either give it away free or try to sell it illegally to a third party though I imagine that person would be in deep trouble very soon after.

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