Scenebreak with font change

opitzs · 11-06-2010, 04:17 PM

Hi,

I am working on an epub and I try to use the Nymphette Font (http://www.dafont.com/nymphette.font) for scene breaks:

Code:

.scene_break {
  font-family: "Nymphette";
  font-size: 2em;
  display: block;
  margin-bottom: 0.5em;
  margin-left: 0em;
  margin-right: 0em;
  margin-top: 0em;
  text-align: center;
  text-indent: 0em;
}

Code:

<p class="scene_break">7</p>

It shows a nice symbol in Sigil, but ADE and my PRS 600 simply display the text in the standard font.

Do you have any hints?

Thank you
Sven

Adjust · 11-06-2010, 06:59 PM

What I do is take a screen shot of the dinkus then insert it as an image. Because font embedding is really hit and miss

HarryT · 11-07-2010, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adjust

What I do is take a screen shot of the dinkus then insert it as an image. Because font embedding is really hit and miss

I agree. Using a graphic for this kind of thing is a much more portable solution.

Jellby · 11-07-2010, 04:08 AM

Are you embedding the font in the ePUB?

Fabe · 11-07-2010, 08:27 AM

I have yet to find a universal ePub display. Each reader has its own quarks and limitations. Embedded fonts are a tossup. Some machines/ereaders display them, others like the iPad will not. The more machines you want your epub to run on, the more generic the coding must be. At least that's my observation.

yekim54 · 11-07-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabe

Each reader has its own quarks and limitations.

And those quarks combine to form hadrons.

opitzs · 11-08-2010, 04:36 AM

Hello All!

Thank you very much for your help, I will do as you suggest and make a dinkus picture, which I will then use. I was just astounded, as all other Fonts worked absolutely well...

In this case this is not a problem at all, it is just one of my favourite books and I want a version that does it justice, even if I can't give the result to anyone else. So I won't have to look after IPad compatibility.

Thank you very much
Sven

Jellby · 11-08-2010, 05:09 AM

Note, too, the following sentence from the ePUB specification:

Fonts must not provide mappings for Unicode characters that would change the semantics of the text (e.g. mapping the letter "A" to a biohazard symbol).

or, in your case: mapping the number "7" to a dingbat. Maybe that's why this font doesn't work?

opitzs · 11-08-2010, 07:51 AM

@Jellby:

I see what you mean, but how would the browser component know, that in this case this is a meaningless substitution?
Or can that be found out through some font properties? When I have time I will investigate this.

Thank you
Sven

jharker · 11-08-2010, 03:12 PM

I've pointed this out before, but I'll say it again: yes, you CAN embed fonts for the iPad. See my blog post for the general how-to.

Now, just because it's possible doesn't mean you SHOULD do it. As everyone has pointed out, embedding support in different readers can be hit-or-miss (although I believe the method I posted should work in most cases). Also, it shouldn't be used for full text. For headings, such as you propose, I think it would be fine.

Still, images are generally the most portable solution. I would recommend creating the image at high resolution and giving its size in em; that way it should scale along with the font, and even if it gets big you won't see any pixelation.

opitzs · 11-10-2010, 04:35 AM

@jharker:
Thank you, I was not sure if I could scale an image in em, this is very nice!

opitzs · 11-13-2010, 06:14 AM

Hi all,

I have installed fontforge on my machine and it turns out, that there are Symbol-TTFs and normal TTFs. After converting the font to a normal TTF, it now simply works like a charm!

So, maybe this is the problem, why some fonts show and some don't?

Ciao
Sven

JohnLemon · 03-20-2011, 01:18 PM

Thank you all for this discussion. Using an image file in place of a dingbat will save my own "question mark" problem. A most excellent idea and a very elegant solution!

Thanks again,
-John

ldolse · 03-21-2011, 06:54 AM

If you want the same level of quality as the original font you can also use Inkscape to convert the desired scenebreak character to an svg. This way you get something that's scalable to any resolution and future-proofed.

Down-side is crappy epub renderers don't render SVG, but I'd rather use the features and force the non-compliant reading system guys to step up to the plate and support the spec. Any ADE/Apple/Webkit based renderers support it though.

Adjust · 03-21-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldolse

Down-side is crappy epub renderers don't render SVG, but I'd rather use the features and force the non-compliant reading system guys to step up to the plate and support the spec. Any ADE/Apple/Webkit based renderers support it though.

Do you really think just because you've put in an SVG image then the non compliant readers will say "Hang on...I think we should add support for SVG"???

All you are doing is making an eBook which won't display correctly.

11-06-2010, 04:17 PM	#1
opitzs Avid Reader Posts: 161 Karma: 36472 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Look for rain, hail and snow... Device: PRS-505, PRS-600, PRS T1, Kobo Glo	Scenebreak with font change Hi, I am working on an epub and I try to use the Nymphette Font (http://www.dafont.com/nymphette.font) for scene breaks: Code: .scene_break { font-family: "Nymphette"; font-size: 2em; display: block; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0em; margin-right: 0em; margin-top: 0em; text-align: center; text-indent: 0em; } Code: <p class="scene_break">7</p> It shows a nice symbol in Sigil, but ADE and my PRS 600 simply display the text in the standard font. Do you have any hints? Thank you Sven Last edited by opitzs; 11-06-2010 at 05:22 PM. Reason: Url for font added

11-08-2010, 07:51 AM	#9
opitzs Avid Reader Posts: 161 Karma: 36472 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Look for rain, hail and snow... Device: PRS-505, PRS-600, PRS T1, Kobo Glo	@Jellby: I see what you mean, but how would the browser component know, that in this case this is a meaningless substitution? Or can that be found out through some font properties? When I have time I will investigate this. Thank you Sven Last edited by opitzs; 11-08-2010 at 07:52 AM. Reason: I guess the software, that displays ebooks is a browser component...

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11-06-2010, 06:59 PM	#2
Adjust Addict Posts: 351 Karma: 70000 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Australia Device: ADE, iPad	What I do is take a screen shot of the dinkus then insert it as an image. Because font embedding is really hit and miss

11-07-2010, 04:08 AM	#4
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,543 Karma: 19001583 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	Are you embedding the font in the ePUB?

11-07-2010, 08:27 AM	#5
Fabe Dylanologist Posts: 200 Karma: 146754 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Hanover, New Hampshire, USA Device: none/all/any	I have yet to find a universal ePub display. Each reader has its own quarks and limitations. Embedded fonts are a tossup. Some machines/ereaders display them, others like the iPad will not. The more machines you want your epub to run on, the more generic the coding must be. At least that's my observation.

11-08-2010, 04:36 AM	#7
opitzs Avid Reader Posts: 161 Karma: 36472 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Look for rain, hail and snow... Device: PRS-505, PRS-600, PRS T1, Kobo Glo	Hello All! Thank you very much for your help, I will do as you suggest and make a dinkus picture, which I will then use. I was just astounded, as all other Fonts worked absolutely well... In this case this is not a problem at all, it is just one of my favourite books and I want a version that does it justice, even if I can't give the result to anyone else. So I won't have to look after IPad compatibility. Thank you very much Sven

11-08-2010, 05:09 AM	#8
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,543 Karma: 19001583 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	Note, too, the following sentence from the ePUB specification: Fonts must not provide mappings for Unicode characters that would change the semantics of the text (e.g. mapping the letter "A" to a biohazard symbol). or, in your case: mapping the number "7" to a dingbat. Maybe that's why this font doesn't work?

11-08-2010, 03:12 PM	#10
jharker Developer Posts: 345 Karma: 3473 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Device: iRex iLiad v1, Blackberry Tour, Kindle DX, iPad.	I've pointed this out before, but I'll say it again: yes, you CAN embed fonts for the iPad. See my blog post for the general how-to. Now, just because it's possible doesn't mean you SHOULD do it. As everyone has pointed out, embedding support in different readers can be hit-or-miss (although I believe the method I posted should work in most cases). Also, it shouldn't be used for full text. For headings, such as you propose, I think it would be fine. Still, images are generally the most portable solution. I would recommend creating the image at high resolution and giving its size in em; that way it should scale along with the font, and even if it gets big you won't see any pixelation.

11-10-2010, 04:35 AM	#11
opitzs Avid Reader Posts: 161 Karma: 36472 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Look for rain, hail and snow... Device: PRS-505, PRS-600, PRS T1, Kobo Glo	@jharker: Thank you, I was not sure if I could scale an image in em, this is very nice!

11-13-2010, 06:14 AM	#12
opitzs Avid Reader Posts: 161 Karma: 36472 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Look for rain, hail and snow... Device: PRS-505, PRS-600, PRS T1, Kobo Glo	Hi all, I have installed fontforge on my machine and it turns out, that there are Symbol-TTFs and normal TTFs. After converting the font to a normal TTF, it now simply works like a charm! So, maybe this is the problem, why some fonts show and some don't? Ciao Sven

03-20-2011, 01:18 PM	#13
JohnLemon Ower, The Ilium Press Posts: 1 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Spokane Valley, WA Device: None	Thank you all for this discussion. Using an image file in place of a dingbat will save my own "question mark" problem. A most excellent idea and a very elegant solution! Thanks again, -John

03-21-2011, 06:54 AM	#14
ldolse Wizard Posts: 1,337 Karma: 123455 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Malaysia Device: PRS-650, iPhone	If you want the same level of quality as the original font you can also use Inkscape to convert the desired scenebreak character to an svg. This way you get something that's scalable to any resolution and future-proofed. Down-side is crappy epub renderers don't render SVG, but I'd rather use the features and force the non-compliant reading system guys to step up to the plate and support the spec. Any ADE/Apple/Webkit based renderers support it though.

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